[Tom Vaught]

73-74 year engine basic rebuild but at least we got some air time.

Some of the engine rebuild things they did to the engine are things i would not do though.

1) Weld the oil pump pick-up on the pump with the ball and spring installed

2) Do the rope seal the way they did it.

3) Mark the caps the way they did them

Some other stuff but just me. Overall it made 310 hp
on the dyno as a 4 bbl engine (was a 2-bbl originally).
98 cc heads.

Tom V.

[Don 79 TA]

yeah i just saw that
not bad #'s considering

[TTS]

I know it was a budget build, but I thought it set Pontiacs back 20 years.

[sixxty7]

all for a little over $2000, yea right. i find that hard to believe........

[71 Ventura II]

310 HP and 411 TQ wasn't awful but what did they expect running a tiny "Baby" sized cam. I don't think the intent was to put down Pontiac, BUT with the offering to the masses it makes the Pontiac V8 as an under performer compared to the SBC and SBF offerings they normally dyno on the show. The bad deal, only the true Pontiac enthusiast knows how the combo should/could have been setup, the majority of the viewers will just accept the numbers given.

My observation, OK 310 HP isn't out of the norm but making only 411 TQ seems low for such a small cam. JD

[6D6GOAT]

im no engine builder but did i see them scrubing down the head gasket mating surface on the block with a steel wool pad after the motor was assembled???

its been my experience when using steel wool that the stuff falls off everywhere and would easily fall into the combustion chambers.

[Don 79 TA]

and to think a SBC or SBF guy will replicate that build it and try to rev it to 8k lol

[Tiberius]

Actually 310HP.. Not bad.. considering the 98CC heads.

Compression a little low, and they could have easily played with different cams and really awaken that motor up with more power too..

All for $2000.00 I No Believe..LOL

[95ramairformula]

What size was the cam to produce 310hp and 411 tq ?

[KCTurbo]

The cam was 212/225 whitch I think is the 068. They didn't say what the lift was, but they said the put 1.6 stamped steel rockers on. I didn't know that anyone made rockers like that. I think they said they were pioneer rockers. Then on the next show they had the 69 Bird in there. Once the said that the new motor was an LS2 I shut the TV off shouting Blasphemy.

[SS-TA]

The Cam was a "Howards Cam" 214/224, sounds like one of the "generic" grinds offered by many vendors. More of a concern was the O'Reillys rebuilt Quadrajet, who knows what calibration that had ? They did not mention any tuning so it's impossible to know if even the Distributor curve was optimized. As a KCTurbo mentioned they claimed a pioneer 1.6 ratio rocker arm, don't know if this is correct.

[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by 71 Ventura II

"310 HP and 411 TQ wasn't awful but what did they expect running a tiny "Baby" sized cam...."JD

Originally Posted by Kcturbo

"The cam was 212/225 whitch I think is the 068..."

You mean the same '068/K2801' grind that one sees almost universally recommended here in this forum as the 'holy grail' of Pontiac camshafts, regardless of SCR??? Not surprising results at all.

Chevy guys do the exact same thing...They take the 327/300 horse cam, (which is also the 283/250 horse cam, the 350/295 horse cam and the 400/265 horse cam) originally designed for a higher SCR and put it in everything. They reckon that because it appeared in so many different engines, it just has to be great.

In reality, It is nothing more than the factory's attempt to use one cam in a bunch of applications (just like the 068) because it costs them less per unit to produce. It's a great cam, but there are literally hundreds of better grinds available today.

With those 98cc heads and low subsequent SCR, the wide LSA of the '068' and its relatively late IC event, was certainly not the best camshaft choice. I would have liked to see them shoot-out some different camshafts (on tighter LSA's) that would build DCR in a lower SCR application.

I agree with you guys 100%....they need to think outside the 068 camshaft box for a change...Robert

[rad400]

the only good Pontiac motor HP T.V. did was one of Butler's motors making 600hp. Someone need to show them how to build a stong 400 motor with 500 hp.

[Juliano]

My 1965 389 has a stock 068 GM cam and it runs pretty good for a street car.........

[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by Juliano

My 1965 389 has a stock 068 GM cam and it runs pretty good for a street car.........

I would imagine that it runs great, Juliano....That's the intended application for that grind....Robert

[Juliano]

Robert,
Its not to bad, I have been on long trips up to 1200 miles round trip with no issues, its not a ten second killer car but I have fun with it.

[69lm69gp]

Originally Posted by SS-TA

More of a concern was the O'Reillys rebuilt Quadrajet, who knows what calibration that had ?

Maybe Cliff could give them a call and offer to tune their Q-jet for them. Now that would be a must see Horsepower episode.

[440GP69]

IT was a howards hyd cam 214-224 dur cam 112lsa, notice how they use a pontiac for the budget rebuild and put all the money in the chevy's! it did do ok though.

[ho428]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Actually 310HP.. Not bad.. considering the 98CC heads.

Compression a little low, and they could have easily played with different cams and really awaken that motor up with more power too..

All for $2000.00 I No Believe..LOL

I don't recall them saying they decked the block. ???
I figure they were in the low to mid 8's on compression so 310 isn't that bad, and the torque number was pretty good. But they could have gotten a better head for sure and gotten around 9:1 to still run pump gas. You'd think Butler would have guided them a little more? Something around 375-400 to hit that 1hp per cube would have been a better budget build.
But a little over 2k is a pretty good number for a low comp DIY build, tight but doable.

[Bumper]

Originally Posted by Z Code 400

You mean the same '068/K2801' grind that one sees almost universally recommended here in this forum as the 'holy grail' of Pontiac camshafts, regardless of SCR??? Not surprising results at all.

Chevy guys do the exact same thing...They take the 327/300 horse cam, (which is also the 283/250 horse cam, the 350/295 horse cam and the 400/265 horse cam) originally designed for a higher SCR and put it in everything. They reckon that because it appeared in so many different engines, it just has to be great.

In reality, It is nothing more than the factory's attempt to use one cam in a bunch of applications (just like the 068) because it costs them less per unit to produce. It's a great cam, but there are literally hundreds of better grinds available today.

With those 98cc heads and low subsequent SCR, the wide LSA of the '068' and its relatively late IC event, was certainly not the best camshaft choice. I would have liked to see them shoot-out some different camshafts (on tighter LSA's) that would build DCR in a lower SCR application.

I agree with you guys 100%....they need to think outside the 068 camshaft box for a change...Robert

You can't hate what has been a proven cam in many applications for years just because you prefer to use something different. Jim Hand has written enough on this subject to get anyone started in the right direction when it comes to correct cam selection for a street driven car.

Also, did you ever prove the "Max Performance Cam" you suggested in an old thread actually performs better than a 068 type cam in a street car? Not to dog you but, if you keep saying "think outside the box" and run a mid to high 14 with one of your "custom designed" cams, you're not proving anything.

Nice segment, but they should know they spent twice what the average cheap Pontiac guy would like to spend on a build!