[Will]

I bought the Comp Cams degree wheel kit back in the day. Had to make an adapter for the valvecover bolt hole as you mentioned and also ended up making a spacer/washer for the wheel itself to facilitate loosening the crank bolt and moving the wheel during the initial setup.

There are better setups out there now. It's been about ten years since I bought my wheel and I haven't been shopping for another since mine gets the job done, but have seen ones advertised with crank snout adapters for different makes and you can use a magnetic base dial indicator stand instead of the screw-in style as a more universal application. Look at offerings from Powerhouse products, Summit & Jegs. In fact, a magnetic base dial indicator stand is a really handy thing to have for checking all kinds of things from crank endplay to main journal runout. I used mine to discover that the crank grinder I was using was grinding all kinds of runout into the cranks he was doing for me, which is why one of my engines failed.

Good luck!

[68lemans462]

The mopar keys are a great idea.... These fit perfectly... I used these on my UD cam and dialed in at 104ICL no problem....

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

[Geoff]

G455,
I agree with Cliff's idea of advancing the cam in 2 deg increments [ & retarding it ? ] & trying it. If you are not sure how much valve-to-piston clearance you have at TDC, you might want to check that before moving the cam. Advancing the cam will close up the INTAKE valve clearance. Retarding will close up the EXHAUST valve clearance. Depending on who you talk to, 0.120" on the exh & 0.100" on the int should be the minimum valve-to-piston clearance. Moving the cam 2 degrees changes the v-to-p clearance about 0.013" with 1.65 rockers.

[grandville455]

I have been thinking more about this.. and I want to know where it is in the car, cause if its at 104 then maybe i need to go bigger to reach my goals then.. if its retarded then this good be a good thing...I guess if its not anywhere near 104 it should be a improvment!

[Motor Daddy]

You can get a real good estimate of the ICL, if that's all you want to know, just by turning the crank over clockwise with a dial indicator on the pushrod end of the #1 intake rocker above the pushrod. Position the crank so that the #1 intake valve is at max lift (you can use the .050" down method to find max lift). Now, all you need to know is how many degrees After Top Dead Center (ATDC) the crank is. You can use a timing tape, or mark and measure the balancer. You could even put a white dot on the damper at the 0 line on the timing tab, and use a dial back timing light (if it went to ~120 degrees ATDC to measure a ICL of up to 120, or use #4 wire and do some math 60 BTDC ) to find the amount of degrees the crank is ATDC.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Thats very true Cliff... How about this one I found on ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PONTI...spagenameZWD1V

I believe Summit sells the same set for $67.95. SUM-G6612-B

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

You can get a real good estimate of the ICL, if that's all you want to know, just by turning the crank over clockwise with a dial indicator on the pushrod end of the #1 intake rocker above the pushrod. Position the crank so that the #1 intake valve is at max lift (you can use the .050" down method to find max lift). Now, all you need to know is how many degrees After Top Dead Center (ATDC) the crank is. You can use a timing tape, or mark and measure the balancer. You could even put a white dot on the damper at the 0 line on the timing tab, and use a dial back timing light (if it went to ~120 degrees ATDC to measure a ICL of up to 120, or use #4 wire and do some math 60 BTDC ) to find the amount of degrees the crank is ATDC.

MD
Kinda illiterate to this,lol.. so can u explain easier? also what about the flex in the lifter cup if there bled down? wont this be inaccurate ?.. My balancer is marked the first 60* i believe then every 90 after that.. Its professional Products SFI one

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by grandville455

MD
Kinda illiterate to this,lol.. so can u explain easier? also what about the flex in the lifter cup if there bled down? wont this be inaccurate ?.. My balancer is marked the first 60* i believe then every 90 after that.. Its professional Products SFI one

You are trying to find the Intake Centerline. That is the amount of crank degrees the max lift of the #1 intake lifter occurs after TDC. Find the point of max lift and note the amount of crank degrees ATDC. That is the ICL.

[grandville455]

Yea I get that part... I found this seems pretty easy too. http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/degree.html.

can i just get a degree wheel and use some spacers and attach it right to my pulley? and then use the method above? and not tear it all down?

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Yea I got that part.this is where i get lost. (you can use the .050" down method to find max lift?)

what i meant was do i just install the dial indicator on top of #1 rocker and then what do i do from there just keep turning motor over until the indicator starts falling off then watch the balancer? thats where i am confused sorry...

Install the dial indicator anyplace you can get a good reading of the "lift" of the #1 intake valve train. The actual lift is not important, you are only trying to find the point of max lift. Once you find the point of max lift leave it there. Look at the damper and note the amount of degrees past TDC the Line on the damper is. If the cam is installed on say a 104 ICL, the line on the damper (TDC for #1) should be 104 degrees past #1 TDC.

The .050" down method is a way to determine a very accurate center between two points, like you would if you were finding TDC with either a dial indicator or a piston stop. When you know the amount of degrees between two points, say .050" before and .050" after, the center (true TDC or max lift) will be half the amount of the total degrees between the points.

[Cliff R]

Darby, sometimes you've just got to get dirty and not let all this stuff overwelm you.

As mentioned above, I wouldn't invest a penny in all the items required to degree the cam with the engine installed. Just move the cam, keep close track of the results, and save yourself a lesson in humility.....FWIW......Cliff

[71 Ventura II]

I'm in the same boat, I am in the middle of "Degreeing" my cam! So far it hasn't stopped raining long enough for me to get out there. I'm using an old Comp Cams degree kit (So old it has a VHS tape tutorial!LOL) so far. I bought the Mopar offset camkeys, a Comp Cams piston stop, and intend on either buying or making a better mount for the degree wheel. It may not be as comfortable but degreeing a cam in the car or on the engine stand is the same process.

I'm with you on wondering why my car hasn't picked up MPH and ET with the current changes. I swapped "Cam, intake, headers, converter, and fuel pumps" last Fall and the car ran the same ET/MPH as it did before! Went from a 12.59 @107.29 to a 12.58 @107.27!!! Something was not right as the changes were substantial.

What I found as posible causes:
1. I forgot to remove the sintered brass filters to each fuel bowl. (Holley carb).
2. Advance curve was not reliable (HEI now locked)
3. I left out the camshaft eccentric (Another cause of irratic timing)
4. I did not "degree" the solid cam on install.

JMO Having the cam at the proper advance is very important, maybe more so for your car because of the weight. My observation was with how poorly my car 60''s, even with a 3600 converter, 4.30 gear, and a relatively light car it's all time best 60' is only 1.864! Not good enough!

Please keep posting the results of your "degreeing" process every little bit helps! JD

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Yea I get that part... I found this seems pretty easy too. http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/degree.html.

can i just get a degree wheel and use some spacers and attach it right to my pulley? and then use the method above? and not tear it all down?

I never mentioned a degree wheel or tearing it down to just check the ICL.

[grandville455]

How close will that come to the actual ICL? So Just measure the distance on my balancer when i reach Max lift right?.Max lift is when the dial indicator starts going the other way?..Can I just use the timing marks on there as a scale to add after the marks stop? for example if 30*is 2"...then 60*would 4" etc...

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by grandville455

How close will that come to the actual ICL? So Just measure the distance on my balancer when i reach Max lift right?.Max lift is when the dial indicator starts going the other way?..Can I just use the timing marks on there as a scale to add after the marks stop? for example if 30*is 2"...then 60*would 4" etc...

The degree of accuracy is the same as the degree of accuracy for the spark advance (timing). You are using the same deal. Instead of knowing when the plug wire is hot you know when the intake max lift occurs.

Like I said, you could actually mark the damper at the zero mark on the timing tab when the #1 intake is at max lift, and use a timing light while the engine is running to observe the ICL with a timing light on the damper.

Just use some creative thinking.

There is at least one line on the damper. That is a reference mark relative to the timing marks. When the damper line lines up with the 0 line on the timing tab, the piston is at TDC (if damper and crank were manufactured correctly). An ICL of 104 means that the intake max lift will occur at 104 ATDC.

There are numerous ways to "degree" a damper. You can actually do the job with nothing more than the existing timing marks and a silver sharpie. When the damper line (or zero mark) is at TDC you can place a tiny dot with the marker on the damper at say the 24 BTDC mark on the timing tab. Now, that new dot is a 24 ATDC mark when aligned with the zero on the timing tab. Do it again, and again, and do some simple math, and make different combinations of whatever you need. You can make a 104 ATDC (or any degree) dot on the damper by just using the existing timing marks and a marker and rotating the crank. You can flash a light at it at the proper "time" and take your readings like you would if it were seeing what spark advance the engine has at a specific RPM.

[grandville455]

We'll I tried it one way last night and got 98* degrees.. I am going to try MD's .050 method tonight and see what i get... But from what i have read about ultradyne cams that 98 sounds about right.. which also explains why this 108LSA idles like a kitty cat at 675 RPMs in drive...cause its too far advanced....! and Why its not picking up any MPH.... 231 .050 on a 108 isn't a small cam IMHO

[grandville455]

We'll talked to bullet and he said to have it at 102... cause of the weight gearing etc.. so i will check it tonight and if its the same i will use my 2 degree offset key and retard it the 4 degrees needed to bring it in at 102....Granted i havent officially degreed it but this has to be damn close doing it this way too....Worse case senario it slows down right!?

[grandville455]

We'll tried the .050 down method tonight and got a different reading.. with that way its more like 106.. so I will just wait and do it right when i can... Hell with it!..

[Motor Daddy]

As long as your measurements are accurate, the cam is at a 106 ICL, which is 2 degrees advanced for a 108 LSA cam. I'd leave it.

[grandville455]

We'll when I did it the one way it was 6 3/4 inches.which was 98*. this way i got 7 1/4 so doing the math with my scale i figured it to be close to 106* now...also sometimes when i turned the crank the indicator didnt move right away.That could definatly affect the readings right? then another time it went right away.. i think the more i kept doing this i was bleeding out my lifters which could affect it too......I think the car would pick up some if i advanced it to 102 like bullet said to help it out of the hole more? He also said that if the cam is too advanced the idle actually gets worse.. so maybe i am closer to 106 then 98?