[ramair kooter]

looks like he's going to fight the dash issue all the way to the supreme court. id like to learn more about the paint code 1. where is there info about this? would the car have been delivered in primer or would gm have painted it whatever color was special ordered? love to see this one in person to look in jams, seems etc. for signs of original color.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by ramair kooter

looks like he's going to fight the dash issue all the way to the supreme court. id like to learn more about the paint code 1. where is there info about this? would the car have been delivered in primer or would gm have painted it whatever color was special ordered? love to see this one in person to look in jams, seems etc. for signs of original color.

OK,it WAS possible to get a BLACK 70-72 Firebird or T/A,etc. & they WERE painted on the assembly line.

As I understand it,you could order a BLACK Camaro,so the paint was already there in the paint line.

It gets a BIT complicated here as the Firebird front bumpers & sport mirrors came from the suppliers in the various colors that were available.

Obviously,there would be no black ones in the bumper rack.

Black Firebirds were built with white bumpers/mirrors.

It was the dealers job to paint bumper & mirrors to match the rest of car.

I have a 72 base bird that was painted black from the factory & there is just a dash ( --) instead of paint code.

On the build sheet is handwritten; include one quart of body color paint in rear compartment. (so the dealer could finish the paint job.

[x-bird2]

if this is the PA car, it has been discussed here in detail and it's likely the same one that i've heard the "delivered to dealer in primer" story about around here for years now. if anything that bezel is dealer or owner added, i'm not buying his looks like it hasn't been removed line. it could've been done in the 80s or early 90s and look like "original installation". At least he can't maintain that it is documented in the PHS.

[Judge273]

I assume it is just a swap out of a decal to make it correct if a dealer can do it?

Personally, I like the swirl dash, and would keep it. Lots of dealer installed items back then.

Black was also the right choice for the special paint. IMO

Can someone post a link to the PA car? Also is the rearend ratio correct for an AC ho car?

[eaglesan13]

I really doubt you could get a 3.73 rear gear in a air conditioned car. But even if you could, wouldn't "performance axle" be listed on the PHS?

[toomanybirds]

The seller states the rear axle code is CMG

CM is the code for 3.42 locking differential, G is for the axle manufacturer, Detroit Gear and axle.

There was no 3.73 axle ratio available in a 1972 Firebird or TA.

3.73 was available in a 1971 Firebird, the stamped code would be CGG.

The black Firebird has a 3.42 ratio rear axle, but don't bother telling the seller. He had a "Pontiac expert" verify the numbers on this car.

The invoice shows code SPS "SOLID SPEC" for $113.00 This means special paint was applied to this car, not primer.

As stated previously, some parts like the bumper, rear spoiler, and mirrors would not have been available in black on the assembly line, and would have been painted black by the selling dealer.

Also, a 72 Firebird would have had a plastic front valance molded in body color. The valance would not be available in black, and would have been painted by the dealer.

[muscle_collector]

what about a 71 bird?

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

That's MY take.

Formula's came with a woodgrain style dash till 1979, PERIOD!

i beg to differ because i have had 3 78 t/a 6.6 4 speed formulas still have one of them. all of them were bought from the original owners and all three of them have the t/a dash bezel and i questioned all three of them when i bought them and they all said it came that way. ps- i bought these cars from around 1980 thru maybe 84. all were pretty low mileage cars. so i have to say that at least the t/a 6.6 cars got the t/a dash bezel in 78.

[Transamric]

May be true for '78 or newer, but definitely not for '70-76. Is there a chance an assembly line worker or two installed the wrong dash bezel in the dash board sub-assembly before it was put in to it's proper Firebird? Certainly. But these are the kind of errors that would have been called out & fixed either at Final Assembly (after assembly was completed, in what was called the Body Shop) or shipped to the delivering dealer with notation to fix the mistake. No one could special order a '70-76 Firebird with a bezel other than what Pontiac intended for that particular model to be built with.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Transamric

May be true for '78 or newer, but definitely not for '70-76. Is there a chance an assembly line worker or two installed the wrong dash bezel in the dash board sub-assembly before it was put in to it's proper Firebird? Certainly. But these are the kind of errors that would have been called out & fixed either at Final Assembly (after assembly was completed, in what was called the Body Shop) or shipped to the delivering dealer with notation to fix the mistake. No one could special order a '70-76 Firebird with a bezel other than what Pontiac intended for that particular model to be built with.

I agree with Rick on the bezel. And the rear end A/C axle was never 3.73. GM put 3.31's in 1970 and 3.08's(May be wrong here) in 1971. This was to keep the RPM's down at higher speeds to keep the belts from throwing on the A/C system. The A/C set up had a long belt with plenty of room for ...well ,lets call it deflection... so higher RPM's were just asking for this belt to throw..3.73's were available, but even on cars that it was mandated(like RAIV's) there was a code /notation on the build sheet for "perf axle", which someone else already stated ,and is correct..If this car has a 3.73 coded rear end in it, it was swapped at some point. These are 40 year old cars.. No telling what all happened over 40 year time frame. I am still amazed(and a bit sceptical) at how many "original ?" cars are supposedly left out there. Those of us who were driving in the 1970's remember the 1st thing a 20 year old did with these cars was to start modifying them. This was the early years of the growth of the aftermarket and soon as something new was available that would increase performance(or alleged to increase pref.), they often were installed. Just like the cheasy clarion radios with dual 6x9's on the rear deck.. Yes, my 1st Firebird in 1979 had many changes almost immediately after purchase... which is probably what happened with this car. The buyer wanted a TA, couldn't afford one(like me in 1979) so started making the interior look like one as soon as he could save the extra $$ to get the bezel..

[muscle_collector]

i have never seen a formula from the factory with the t/a bezel until 78. i am having a brain dead moment and will have to go back and look at pictures of my 77 formula t/a 6.6 4 speed and see what dash it had. best of memory, it had the wood grain.

[threefidee]

Does anyone know of or seen this car in person?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-...QQcmdZViewItem

Jody

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by threefidee

Does anyone know of or seen this car in person?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-...QQcmdZViewItem

Jody

I'm not "old enough" to own a GTO,but that looks like a pretty NICE ride!

[Judge273]

Nicely equipped 72 GTO HO 4 speed, posi, no a/c, no power drag race ready!

At first I thought it was this car as it was from CA too:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=551908

This one is sold I believe awhile back to someone who got a great car!

But, the ebay car is manual brakes, manual steering, 15" rally's. Like to see the build sheet and phs on this one.

[threefidee]

Nice for PS racing

Jody

[OVERULD]

Nice Car. I've been watching it. Sure is pretty to look at!

BJ

[2manyT/A'S]

Are we being punished for owning BETTER cars?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=

SIX bids & sells for OVER $1200.00


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=


NO bids for starting price of LESS than $70.00.

[Transamric]

No, it's plain & simple. The Camaro panel is a reproduction that most of the Camaro venders sell. Easy to find & cheap. The Firebird panel is an original hard to find NOS part that there is no repro part for. Difficult to find & high demand equals big bucks.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Transamric

No, it's plain & simple. The Camaro panel is a reproduction that most of the Camaro venders sell. Easy to find & cheap. The Firebird panel is an original hard to find NOS part that there is no repro part for. Difficult to find & high demand equals big bucks.

I was aware of the NOS status vs. chinese stamping.

My point was just to show the cost differential for both parts,which is obviously reflected in MOST areas of restoring a Firebird vs. Camero.

[RicksGTO]

it's amazing that panel can be sold for basically $100 shipped, you have to wonder if it's even remotely close on quality and fit. I'd pay that much or more for just an accurate repro of the Firebird lower valance portion