[gto/gn]

I just saw this on the Stock/Super Stock website and thought it was well worth passing on over here..
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

[mikeb]

It is kind of scary how many chemicals we routinely use around our cars without a second thought. Ive also purchased brake cleaner and used that instead of carb cleaner from time to time.

[Region Warrior]

Phosgene gas is what was used in the WWII death camps.
Pretty sure they banned tetrachlorothylene in brake and carb cleaner about 5 yrs ago because prolonged exposure causes brain nerve damamge.

[BILTIT]

You can still buy both chloronated and non-chloronated.

The most common stuff i use is chloronated upon looking at the MSDS.

http://www.crcindustries.com.au/catalogue.nsf/(MSDS)/BRAKLEEN%205089%20ncr/$FILE/MSDS.pdf

Good to know, will be switching to non-chloronated.

I always wondered what the difference was, now i know.

[Half-Inch Stud]

WOW. ME thinks we all use Braker Cleaner as that back-up cleaner when the other cleaners run out. A must read for safe breathing.

The white puff of smoke sounds accurate. So do all the symptoms.

[Dragncar]

I had some rats in the back yard under the woodpile. I made a funnel with a 6 foot hose on it and put it down the rat hole. I poured ammonia down it and some bleach right after it(wearing the proper respirator) the white smoke seeped up through the ground.
Shot the rats with .22s and pellet guns on their way out, there was 4 of them. Some were not in good shape by the time they reached the top,looked woozy.
I know this numskull who worked at a butcher shop and there were hundreds of rats under the store down this chute. He thought he was going to gas them and beat them with sticks when they came up. He poured bleach in one hand, ammonia in the other, wearing no mask and he was overcome by the fumes and dropped. The gallon jugs were on the ground with him spilling on him and his clothes.
Then the hundreds of rats came out running right over the top of him like in some horror movie, some tried to get in his clothes. The other guys with sticks got a few of them but the plan did not work out so well. I was laughing my ass of when he told me but he did not think it was so funny.

[Brian Baker]

I stopped using carb cleaner 15+ years ago. Brake cleaner never leaves a residue and dries/evaporates quickly...unlike carb cleaner. The non-chlorinated I've noticed does not smell as strong, but seems to work just as well. Never had a problem, but I've never tried applying heat (and argon) to an area I've used the stuff on. This story is indicative of what happens when a product is misued. So no welding on stuff that has been cleaned with brake cleaner is the lesson.

[BILTIT]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I stopped using carb cleaner 15+ years ago. Brake cleaner never leaves a residue and dries/evaporates quickly...unlike carb cleaner. The non-chlorinated I've noticed does not smell as strong, but seems to work just as well. Never had a problem, but I've never tried applying heat (and argon) to an area I've used the stuff on. This story is indicative of what happens when a product is misued. So no welding on stuff that has been cleaned with brake cleaner is the lesson.

Or atleast let it dry plenty and blow off the area with compressed air to rid of any residual.

[Region Warrior]

I still occasionally use brake clean on my hands.
Know its bad, but its to get even worse harmful stuff off.
Have a HD hand cleaner dispenser next to the tool box for right after.

[Chris Petersen]

Not to hijack but...

This is just a hobby for me, so there is a lot I dont know. What should I be cleaning metal with before welding, that wont cause issues with me?

I tacked a few things together after cleaning with carb cleaner a few months ago, I had no idea that somthing this bad could happen.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Phosgene gas is what was used in the WWII death camps.
Pretty sure they banned tetrachlorothylene in brake and carb cleaner about 5 yrs ago because prolonged exposure causes brain nerve damage.

So that's what Ray has been using ALL these years. Explains a lot.

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

So that's what Ray has been using ALL these years. Explains a lot.

He went thru a case nearly every engine repair.
That could also explain the premature baldness

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

Not to hijack but...

This is just a hobby for me, so there is a lot I dont know. What should I be cleaning metal with before welding, that wont cause issues with me?

I tacked a few things together after cleaning with carb cleaner a few months ago, I had no idea that somthing this bad could happen.

I don't see where using the brake cleaner would cause an issue, provided the area is clean and dry before welding. This welder got into trouble when he hit a spot where the cleaner had puddled and didn't evaporate. Perhaps wiping the area down with mineral spirits or alcohol prior to welding would be better?

[Judas]

Thanks for the warning! I have both in my shop (MIG and brake cleaner). Luckily I have never combined the two, but I could see it happening sooner or later. Terrifying!

-J

[73LeMans]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

Not to hijack but...

This is just a hobby for me, so there is a lot I dont know. What should I be cleaning metal with before welding, that wont cause issues with me?

I tacked a few things together after cleaning with carb cleaner a few months ago, I had no idea that something this bad could happen.

Like others have said Chris, if you let it dry enough, there shouldnt be any issues. Its the first thing I thought of - Brew Dude was really in a rush if hes welding without enough time for Brakleen to dry! (but since it was in a crevice and puddled, the compressed air advise makes good sense!)

I clean all my metals I'm going to weld with Lacquer Thinner, but never thought about looking at its contents...until now. Doesnt have any tetrachlorothylene in it, but I cant say for sure the stuff that IS in it, is any safer to weld over. http://www.newparks.com/PDF/MSDS/SOL...uerThinner.pdf

Heck, I didnt even know tetrachlorothylene was all that bad, so Im not making any recommendations.

[73LeMans]

i just saw Brians post! My typing is too slow. But yeah, same thing.

[Region Warrior]

BTY, they removed the chemical(name?) that makes it dry fast.
Still alot of the old product on the shelves.
But wont be long before the new "slower drying" stuff will be all you can get.

[johnsma22]

This is something that I deal with in my trade all the time and it's not big deal as long as you are informed. Phosgene is created when chlorine is combusted. In the HVAC trade we are faced with this any time that we have to braze on an existing system that has contained a halogenated refrigerant (any refrigerant containing chlorine, ie. R-22, R-12, etc.). I just have to take care to properly evacuate the system and purge it with nitrogen before doing any brazing. There will still be some phosgene created though.

One of the tools we used to use to find leaks in systems containing halogenated refrigerants was a halide torch. A tube on the end of a special torch would suck in a sample of air around a suspected leak. If the flame went from orange to bright green that indicated that phosgene gas was being created which indicated a leak. We just knew enough to not breath it in. Of course we all had to see what is was like to inhale a little phosgene gas and I can tell you that it's not pleasant!

[Nacs Fab]

Exactly why Pool rooms are heated with either an alternate source indirectly or with indirect gas fired units. Once the chlorine in the air is sent through the combustion process of a direct gas fired heating unit, it creats phosgene.

[David Holmberg]

Good info in this thread.