| FAQ |
| Members List |
| Social Groups |
| Calendar |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#1
11-07-2009, 08:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
1500 mile junk 455 teardown pics
I tore out the 455 and took the pan off today. Pan was full of copper, checked every rod. Every rod bearing was junk. All but one were showing copper. Any ideas what caused this? The engine had oil. The rod caps seemed hard to get off(like the bolts and holes didn't line up right). I'm thinkung maybe the builder ran the clearances too tight? I remember the engine being pretty darn hard to turn over when I installed the valvetrain(even without the spark plugs in). It also seemed like it turned over more slowly and stopped more abruptly (when I turned the key off) than before it was rebuilt. I'm open to ideas, and suggestions on where to go from here. Thanks, Jim.
__________________
Sometimes I think about how much more money I'd have if my car got better mileage, but when I hammer the gas and I smell that tire smoke........I remember that I also spend a lot of money on tires. |
|
#2
11-07-2009, 09:01 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Very hard to answer after the fact. But, it could have been put together too tight.
|
|
#3
11-07-2009, 09:03 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
It possibly could have had bad detonation. With bearings down to copper you'd hear that detonation.
__________________
" Is wearing a helmet illegal" Mike Kerr 1-29-09 |
|
#4
11-07-2009, 09:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Forgot the pics
__________________
Sometimes I think about how much more money I'd have if my car got better mileage, but when I hammer the gas and I smell that tire smoke........I remember that I also spend a lot of money on tires. |
|
#5
11-07-2009, 09:44 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#6
11-07-2009, 09:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yeah, I agree with last poster..clearances are too tight.
|
|
#7
11-07-2009, 10:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The crank is standard, and the bearings say std., but not sure on the part number. I'll check tomorrow(I'm clean now). Jim
__________________
Sometimes I think about how much more money I'd have if my car got better mileage, but when I hammer the gas and I smell that tire smoke........I remember that I also spend a lot of money on tires. |
|
#8
11-08-2009, 10:34 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#9
11-08-2009, 10:36 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
How were the Main Bearings?
Assuming Perfectly-good Mains then the Rod Bearing Clearances were totally not checked. Assuming Bad Main Bearings, then they had a rookie "Learning" on your assy. Either way, is sounds of an Assy mishap. ================================================== ==== Just 1 more thing: Did you use a Remote Filter or a deep pan? |
|
#10
11-08-2009, 10:50 AM
|
||||
|
||||
Get some professional help.........
Hey Jim,
I would take the rotating assembly to the suggested machinist mentioned in your other thread and let the machinist assist in the autopsy. Looking @ your pics w/o the ability to personally examine/mic the parts, is just guessing @ this point. Les
__________________
Les Iden ---------------------------- '65 Buick Sport Wagon Custom, 340, T350, 3:23 '66 GTO Post/468, 700R4, 3.31 (Mike's as of 9-16) '68 Grand Prix/455, dual AFBs, T400, 2:93 posi (sold) '72 TA tribute/461, T400, 3.08, (Russ's as of 9-16) '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder Turbo, Konis, 5 speed '09 Torrent GXP, nav, Sun & Sound pkg., Bilsteins |
|
#11
11-08-2009, 12:51 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Les, I will have to do that. I guess that machinist is only a few minutes away. I haven't checked the mains yet. It's unfortunate that the builder is in Iowa. I called him to explain what happened and he didn't seem to care much(he knows I'm 2000 miles away). This is what I get for ignoring my instincts (I thought the guy was an idiot) and getting in a hurry when selecting the builder. Well, since I have it apart, I'll get the headers ceramic coated. They already look terrible. I've also been thinking of getting a dish milled into the pistons so I can run regular. This is possible with the Speed-Pros, right. Jim
__________________
Sometimes I think about how much more money I'd have if my car got better mileage, but when I hammer the gas and I smell that tire smoke........I remember that I also spend a lot of money on tires. |
|
#12
11-08-2009, 01:31 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Were the upper rod bearings cupped to the point they wouldn't stay in the rod. If so, I would say definitely detonation. I went through several engines back before I knew about detonation. Engines all ran good and you could not hear any pinging or rattling. But after a few thousand miles the oil pressure would go away and eventually would start knocking.
Pull it apart and all the bearing would be down to the copper. That was back when I was trying to run 670s on a 406 with pump gas. Not gonna work. |
|
#13
11-08-2009, 01:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
What rods are you using?
|
|
#14
11-08-2009, 01:50 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
What made you think the engine was bad?
Rod knocking? All the rod bearings look the same? Looks like it was starved for oil. What was the oil pressure? I'd also check the block oil galleys for obstruction, make sure the oil galley plugs are in, also. What oil filter? Need a lot more info and pics probably to find the cause.
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! W.E.C moment "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
|
#15
11-08-2009, 02:05 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Root cause- clearances were too tight. Could be caused by improper crank machining, or improper rod assy/machining, or improper bearing insert.
Lack of oil would have turned the inserts black and blue from heat. Detonation kills the uppers, and detonation that bad would have beat up the pistons and rings. Was the oil pressure crazy-high when this thing ran? Did it run hot? Did it spin over slowly when cranking? Signs of too-tight bearings....
__________________
I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
|
#16
11-08-2009, 02:11 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
If you didn't put it together, who knows what might have been done. Maybe they got the rod caps mixed up.
|
|
#17
11-08-2009, 02:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I agree with Les, more info is needed before a cause is determined. The crank'll definitely need turned with the bearings worn that far down.
Mike
__________________
so many pontiacs, so little time.................. moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick.................. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein "There is no such thing as a good tax." "We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." - Winston Churchill |
|
#18
11-08-2009, 02:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Check to see if all the notches on the pistons are facing forward and the tangs on the rod bearings are facing in.
|
|
#19
11-08-2009, 02:25 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Did you check anything or was it delivered complete? When assembling an engine, we like to ensure everything moves smoothly before putting it all completely back together and firing it. There should be some resistance on the rotating assembly, but it shouldn't require a ton of force to get moving and keep moving. Nice smooth motion the entire time.
The assembler could have something stupid like resizing the rods and done it wrong, resulting in bearings not staying in the rod and seeing daylight between the bearing and rod, which would look pretty horrid in a short amount of time. My last 400 came from an idiot who did that. Rod bearings were all shot just like that. |
|
#20
11-08-2009, 05:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Jim,
I'd tear down your 455 all the way, open up all the oil galleries and get them cleaned out, and them mic all of your parts and record the measurements. Everything needs to be cleaned and washed out since your whole motor is now contaminated w/ metal shavings. Obviously your crank will need a repolish at the very least or a turn down to the next undersize, and the rods resized to true them back up. What number heads are you running? Even if you know it's still a good idea to have your new builder measure your combustion chambers to get an accurate measurement to calculate your compression. I wouldn't plan on any piston dishing until then. Geno Last edited by 72blackbird; 11-08-2009 at 05:04 PM. Reason: to address the poster |
| Reply |
|
|
The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.
Linear Mode
