[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

Because I've driven more than a few cars with 2400-ish stall speed converters that will roll backwards on the slightest incline when in gear and require noticable(IE too much) throttle input to move the car at all from a stand still, that's where. I'm glad you think it's funny, but it's not at all.

Edit: And having heard MANY cars equipped with higher stall speed converters as they accelerate from stoplights and such, and the rpm jumps way up higher than it would with a stock converter. I want no part of that. Perhaps it's a matter of cheap converter vs. good, high quality converter, and I have no problem spending money on good parts, but I want daily driver manners, in a sleeper package that looks stock on the outside and under the hood, with the only way to know any different being to look at head casting numbers.

It's amazing that so many people don't understand where this quest comes from. I guess some of you have never heard of the Factory Appearing Stock Tire drag races? It's the same concept, only much more mild. Read:

"No matter how you look at them, F.A.S.T. cars appear showroom stock, including the body, interior, engine and all its external components & manifolds, even the wheels and original 1960's style skinny bias ply tires. As a matter of fact, F.A.S.T cars place very well at shows for "restored" cars, and even sound stock at idle.

But get a group of them on the drag strip, and LOOK OUT! You will see F.A.S.T. cars covering the 1/4 mile in 13, 12, 11 and some even in the 10 second range, with the fastest cars posting trap speeds of over 130 MPH! You see, F.A.S.T. cars may look and sound stock, but internal engine modifications are not restricted."

The point is, there is a middle ground between being bone stock and making gobs and gobs of power with headers and all kinds of other high-visibility modifications. Again, I want to make the most power that I can while still retaining the appearance and manners of stock. Difficult? Yes, absolutely, but that is why it must be done. No, I won't be running in the FAST races - I'm not THAT serious - I just want to make a bit more power, that's all.

It has nothing to do with being a cheapskate or wanting to skimp on parts here and there, and everything to do with the true concept of a sleeper. Yes, it is a compromise - I understand that. I'm ok with that. But at the end of the day, the 350 or so horses I should be able to make and 450+ foot pounds will still be a HELL of a lot more than I was making before.

It's amazing to me that some people simply want all or nothing, and don't understand someone having a different goal than yourself. It's not my intention to start an argument or cause trouble or otherwise stir up crap, but seriously guys, accept that some people have different goals and try to understand why they might not be the same as yours.

Bottom line: I want to make the most power that I can with what I have - That's all. As I have made clear, I have no set goal, and won't be disappointed with the result, regardless, because at the end of the day, no matter what I do, I will be making a lot more than I was making before. Period.

If these guys running the FAST races with Hemi Roadrunners on skinny bias plies can dip into the 10s when their cars were in the 13s stock, surely I can make a few more horsepower than I did before while still appearing stock. That's the entire point, the heart of my goal. Nothing more.

LOL,,,try asking Jay about his FAST car...

Those FAST cars run big compression,very carefully selected solid roller cams,max ported heads,intakes,and exhaust manifolds,max bore size blocks that are filled to strengthen the cylinder walls,light weight R/A's and stuff like aluminum rods and forged/billet stroker cranks,and the bulk of them use very sophosticated driveline hardware,including high stall converters and lots of different trans/rear gearing variations,often with non-stock low numerical first gear trans ratios with higher numerical rear gear ratios to allow them to hook on those skinny bias ply tires,and dont forget the "special" hidden fuel systems and hardware,or the "special" ignition systems,you name it,trick suspension hardware,the list goes on and on,they are anything but simple or basic cars,underneath all the subterfuge,they are state of the art drag cars,and nothing less.

They just look stock.

And they sure dont run them on 87 octane.

They are'nt anything close to being what you described here upfront.

And they aint cheap to build either.

So that's a really,really bad comparison in my book.

We understand for more than your giving us credit for,my '72 bird closely adheres to what you described in many ways,but I have'nt put the undue restrictions on that car as you gave us in the begining of this thread.

Sleepers come in all sorts & variations,the only real requirement to be a "sleeper" is that the car run quicker/faster than it looks like it would run,so they too can be worlds apart from what you said you were after.

Sorry,but what you described upfront was more akin to the "pure stock" drag cars.

Stock idle
87 octane a must
Stock 2.73 rear gearing
Stock stall converter
No obvious external give-aways
OE log manifolds
Strict 4500 max upper RPM limit
200,000 mile lifespan
Must maintain excellent gas mileage

Must I go on???

And you want a magic HR cam/valvespring package to turn it into a fire breather.

It just does'nt work that way.

The cam needs to match the rest of the hardware being used or the end results will suffer negatively as a result of the mismatched components.

Especially in a big heavy car like yours.

Just ask guys like Darby or Jim what it takes to get those boats moving out.

At times what your saying is completely rational and on target for the most part,but then at other times the context slips outta focus,and you seem to expect more than you really should be in other areas of this.

I had dug up that crane HR cam info,and was gonna post it soon,but I guess that would just be a waste of effort here seeing as the build guidelines seem to have changed.

Good luck with this.



Bret P.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Hydraulic Roller Cam 270/278
[email protected] 222/230 [email protected] 560/560 LC 112


At todays prices around here it's about .24 cents differance between regular and premium. Based on 200,000 miles over 20 years at 14 mpg it wouldn't have much impact on the wallet for the differance. But then who knows about gas in 20 years !

The cam mentioned above is MY Tomahawk TC-01-HR!! http://www.pacificperformanceracing....ce-racing.html
Looks like it was copied from my site. Dont know why he did not say so.


Ace

[Steve C.]

"The cam mentioned above is MY Tomahawk TC-01-HR!! http://www.pacificperformanceracing....ce-racing.html
Looks like it was copied from my site. Dont know why he did not say so."


Ace, yes I got those specs from your web site because they were close to what I had in mind. I did not mention a specific brand or supplier name on purpose so as to not muddy the water in the discussion. No harm intended.

[ta man]

The thirteen inch Continental convertor would be ideal for what you want.Consider raising the compression up a bit.I ran 6X-4's on a 455 for years, which have about a 7 or 8 cc smaller chamber and had zero problems running pump gas.Run 2 1/2 inch exhaust with a good set of mufflers.Find the old Dec 1993 HPP magazine there is an article written by Jim Hand read it,it lays out exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

LOL,,,try asking Jay about his FAST car...

Those FAST cars run big compression,very carefully selected solid roller cams,max ported heads,intakes,and exhaust manifolds,max bore size blocks that are filled to strengthen the cylinder walls,light weight R/A's and stuff like aluminum rods and forged/billet stroker cranks,and the bulk of them use very sophosticated driveline hardware,including high stall converters and lots of different trans/rear gearing variations,often with non-stock low numerical first gear trans ratios with higher numerical rear gear ratios to allow them to hook on those skinny bias ply tires,and dont forget the "special" hidden fuel systems and hardware,or the "special" ignition systems,you name it,trick suspension hardware,the list goes on and on,they are anything but simple or basic cars,underneath all the subterfuge,they are state of the art drag cars,and nothing less.

They just look stock.

And they sure dont run them on 87 octane.

They are'nt anything close to being what you described here upfront.

And they aint cheap to build either.

So that's a really,really bad comparison in my book.

We understand for more than your giving us credit for,my '72 bird closely adheres to what you described in many ways,but I have'nt put the undue restrictions on that car as you gave us in the begining of this thread.

Sleepers come in all sorts & variations,the only real requirement to be a "sleeper" is that the car run quicker/faster than it looks like it would run,so they too can be worlds apart from what you said you were after.

Sorry,but what you described upfront was more akin to the "pure stock" drag cars.

Stock idle
87 octane a must
Stock 2.73 rear gearing
Stock stall converter
No obvious external give-aways
OE log manifolds
Strict 4500 max upper RPM limit
200,000 mile lifespan
Must maintain excellent gas mileage

Must I go on???

And you want a magic HR cam/valvespring package to turn it into a fire breather.

It just does'nt work that way.

The cam needs to match the rest of the hardware being used or the end results will suffer negatively as a result of the mismatched components.

Especially in a big heavy car like yours.

Just ask guys like Darby or Jim what it takes to get those boats moving out.

At times what your saying is completely rational and on target for the most part,but then at other times the context slips outta focus,and you seem to expect more than you really should be in other areas of this.

I had dug up that crane HR cam info,and was gonna post it soon,but I guess that would just be a waste of effort here seeing as the build guidelines seem to have changed.

Good luck with this.



Bret P.

Yes, I realize the FAST cars are dedicated race cars that are purpose built for the task. I understand that I won't be making the 600+ hp at the wheels that Dave Dudek does. I never claimed otherwise.

I also never claimed that simply putting a new cam in would turn my engine into some fire-breathing monster.

Perhaps you don't understand just how mild my engine was from the factory. 7.8:1 compression with small valve heads, 2 bbl carb, camshaft about as mild as could be, single exhaust. Do you mean to tell me that I don't stand to gain ANY power by upping the compression a point to 8.8:1, going from 1.92 intake valves to 2.11, ported heads, 4bbl intake and carb, dual exhaust and the right cam for what I am doing? Come on. I never claimed or expressed in any way that I expected 450hp out of this combo. I made it clear SEVERAL times that I am hoping to make noticably more than I did before, and I will be happy with whatever it ends up being. You even stated in your first reply that my expectations were not necessarily unrealistic. Now somehow that has changed.

Think about this for a second.. How much power would you estimate that my combo will make with a good camshaft in the 220° @ .050 / 112 LSA range? More than the 280hp/380tq it made stock, right? That's all I ask. It will be a very noticable improvement, I don't think anyone here could possibly deny that. No, it won't be a barnstormer, but it will move better than it did from the factory. Period. The fact that it isn't making as much power as some of you would like to see me make is irrelevant and beside the point.

Now, can we get back to discussing what would be the best cam for this combination, considering what I want to do? Is it really that hard? Several of you have posted your thoughts on it and I appreciate it. Let's not derail my idea just because you don't agree with what I want to do.

If I came in here telling you that I was hoping to make 500hp and run 12's with this combo in my 4600 pound car, yeah, you'd be perfectly in line to give me **** about it. But I haven't done that - quite the contrary, in fact.

Edit: And I never claimed that I wanted to get excellent fuel mileage either, I even acknowledged that I am sure it will go down a bit, but I won't be happy if it drops into single digit territory. I've built similar cars like this before, in particular a 383 equipped '66 Chevelle dressed exactly as a stock 327 car for one of my customers, and that worked beautifully, but I've built Chevrolets before and have more experience with how to liven them up while still keeping it believable. This is my first Pontiac build of this type, and with the huge difference between engine designs, I know that what works for a Chevrolet small block isn't likely going to be the same as for a large cube Pontiac.

Let me put it this way: If someone were to get in my car and drive it, the only indication I want them to have that the car isn't bone stock original is the extra power on tap. The difference between before and after with the Chevelle was simply amazing - We aren't talking about 200 horses, we're talking probably 40-50, and the same for torque, which is a BIG increase when you're talking about a car that can still quite easily pass for bone stock. I'm hoping for the same thing here, and I have every reason to believe I'll get it.

Part of the reason I've asked here as well is that this will also be my first build with a roller cam - The Chevelle got a regular flat tappet, and at $300 or so for a kit vs. $900+ for a roller kit, I want to be a little bit more careful with my cam choice now, since that will be a costly mistake if I don't end up liking it. Make sense?

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by ta man

The thirteen inch Continental convertor would be ideal for what you want.Conside raising the compression up a bit.I ran 6X-4's on a 455 for years, which have about a 7 or 8 cc smaller chamber and had zero problems running pump gas.Run 2 1/2 inch exhaust with a good set of mufflers.Find the old Dec 1993 HPP magazine there is an article written by Jim Hand read it,it lays out exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

I don't want to have to run 91 octane fuel. Consider the direction that this world is going in terms of fossil fuels and the availability of good gasoline. Since these cars were new, we've already gone from being able to get 101 leaded at the pump to now getting ethanol-diluted 91. Where are we going to be in 10-15 years? No, I'm not building a motor that requires good fuel for what is going to be primary, every day transportation for me.

As for the exhaust, I don't want my car any louder than it is now, and it's pushing it even as it is, so I'm going to keep my dual 2 1/4".

[66bonne]

FWIW: My suggestion would be that at the time you are ready for your cam shaft give P-Dude aka Ken Keefer a call. He can set you up with a cam that fits your application and desires. He KNOWS hydraulic rollers.
In my old P-Dude 455 combo I ran the "Butcher Saturday Night Special". See signature for performance. As Ken's nut hugger I have frequently posted that this cam is the best I have had in any street/strip motor. It idles nicely and has plenty of vacuum for brakes and other accessories. It purrs like a kitten driving around town all day but growls like a tiger at the track all night.
Good luck with your build.
Jim

[antique69lemans]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

I don't want to have to run 91 octane fuel. Consider the direction that this world is going in terms of fossil fuels and the availability of good gasoline. Since these cars were new, we've already gone from being able to get 101 leaded at the pump to now getting ethanol-diluted 91. Where are we going to be in 10-15 years? No, I'm not building a motor that requires good fuel for what is going to be primary, every day transportation for me.

As for the exhaust, I don't want my car any louder than it is now, and it's pushing it even as it is, so I'm going to keep my dual 2 1/4".

I would consider the Ram Air manifolds. They will flow better without affecting your sound too much. Ask around for some before and after experiences on this site. One thing to remember concerning compression, is state of tune is critical when running on the edge of pump gas requirements. So I would rather have optimum timing and tune with a point less compression in your case. The common trend to "zero" deck your piston combo should allow up to 9 to 9.5:1 compression safely. The hydraulic roller may give a little torque, say 20 -30 ft lb from their hype, but the magic way to increase linear torque is add cubic inches, or dollars. I will also vouch for the negative experiences with CHEAP stall convertors. In many ways you sound like my dad, we have a tug of war on his engine build. There is some great advice on here, especially Cliff's. Ease up a little on your perceptions and you can get what you are after. BTW weren't the SD 455 cars around 8:1 compression and a 068 cam ? I have built motors a little over the edge and been disappointed as far as driveability too.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by 66bonne

FWIW: My suggestion would be that at the time you are ready for your cam shaft give P-Dude aka Ken Keefer a call. He can set you up with a cam that fits your application and desires. He KNOWS hydraulic rollers.
In my old P-Dude 455 combo I ran the "Butcher Saturday Night Special". See signature for performance. As Ken's nut hugger I have frequently posted that this cam is the best I have had in any street/strip motor. It idles nicely and has plenty of vacuum for brakes and other accessories. It purrs like a kitten driving around town all day but growls like a tiger at the track all night.
Good luck with your build.
Jim

Thank you, I'll do exactly that. I appreciate the input!

[ta man]

2 1/2 inch exhaust will flow better.You can have a very quiet free flowing exhaust with an x pipe and good mufflers.Too small of an exhaust will limit your horsepower gains.Back a few years ago when I had a mild cammed 455 the two biggest improvements I made was bigger exhaust and a good torque convertor.This was on a motor that was shifted at 4800 rpm.The car picked up 6 tenths of a second at the track with just these two changes.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by antique69lemans

I would consider the Ram Air manifolds. They will flow better without affecting your sound too much. Ask around for some before and after experiences on this site. One thing to remember concerning compression, is state of tune is critical when running on the edge of pump gas requirements. So I would rather have optimum timing and tune with a point less compression in your case. The common trend to "zero" deck your piston combo should allow up to 9 to 9.5:1 compression safely. The hydraulic roller may give a little torque, say 20 -30 ft lb from their hype, but the magic way to increase linear torque is add cubic inches, or dollars. I will also vouch for the negative experiences with CHEAP stall convertors. In many ways you sound like my dad, we have a tug of war on his engine build. There is some great advice on here, especially Cliff's. Ease up a little on your perceptions and you can get what you are after. BTW weren't the SD 455 cars around 8:1 compression and a 068 cam ? I have built motors a little over the edge and been disappointed as far as driveability too.

Yes, I realize optimum tuning will make or break the combo and whether I am happy with it or not, but to me it's sort of a given that I'll be tuning this car more than just turning the mixture screws on the carb. As I've said, I don't want to raise the compression any higher.

The reason for a hydraulic roller for me has a lot less to do with performance, and more to do with long term reliability. Using a flat tappet camshaft in a new engine build now is a foolish idea as far as I'm concerned, what with the necessity to use a ZDDP additive in the oil at every change. Who's to say that will even be available in ten years? The last thing I'm going to do is build an engine that may be limited in the future to a thousand miles a year because of the cost of a special additive that may not even be available.

I took my block and heads to the machine shop, only to find out that the chemicals they use now to boil out parts are barely strong enough to dissolve grease! They didn't even touch the rust or paint on the block! This state of California is so damn unfriendly to the old car world and chemicals and stuff in general, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if ZDDP becomes difficult to get in the future. Perhaps it's paranoia, perhaps it's whatever, but I'm not putting a flat tappet cam in for that reason alone. If it weren't for that, it wouldn't make any difference to me.

I also ran some numbers, and if this engine runs 200k miles, the cost of the additive alone over that time would add up enough to buy a roller cam anyway, so why not make the more sensible, reliable choice?

I have thought about going the stroker route, but I am not sure if it will make that much difference considering the limitations on compression, exhaust manifolds, carb, etc. Going from 455 to about 488-494 cubes seems very do-able reliably, but for an additional cost of nearly $2k, and I just don't think that extra displacement will get me enough extra twist to make it worth it. Add in the fuel mileage penalty and I've all bust dismissed that idea.

[ta man]

Have you considered going to a KRE head which will allow low octane to be used.My current engine makes about 500hp and can run quite well on 87 octane.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by ta man

Have you considered going to a KRE head which will allow low octane to be used.My current engine makes about 500hp and can run quite well on 87 octane.

I have not, as I want my engine to appear entirely "stock" externally, which it will save for casting numbers with the 6X heads.

[grandville455]

Ok so u said in a earlier post u would like a street/ light strip car?.. why not just have dave at SD port your 6x heads and then use the stump puller cam, maybe have it custom ground on a 114 for idle charactoristics. get a nice conti 13" conv or the 10 either one works great in these cars, 2.5 or 3" x system with stock style caddy 2.5 mufflers, use the low gear set from coan in the trans, run your 2.73's and use 26" slicks when u drag and it will be a fun car all around! I can already tell you tho whatever u do it will end up not fast enough for you

[OINK 1]

Trash gear set, they keep the motor from getting to optimum r.p.m. range for best gas
mileage.
Run 3:55's GUARANTEED better milage than 2:73's !!
Cam Ultra-Dyne 280/284 hr12+6 226/230@ .050 .530" lift
I put this cam in a Grand Ville with a 462 I built. 18 m.p.g. @ 70 m.p.h.
Ram air exh. manifolds.
If you want the cam and lifters etc. call 1-303-776-0877

Pontiac Gregg
Visa/ M/C
800+ Pontiac Motors built !!

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Ok so u said in a earlier post u would like a street/ light strip car?.. why not just have dave at SD port your 6x heads and then use the stump puller cam, maybe have it custom ground on a 114 for idle charactoristics. get a nice conti 13" conv or the 10 either one works great in these cars, 2.5 or 3" x system with stock style caddy 2.5 mufflers, use the low gear set from coan in the trans, run your 2.73's and use 26" slicks when u drag and it will be a fun car all around! I can already tell you tho whatever u do it will end up not fast enough for you

I will look into the converter you're talking about, as well as grinding the cam as you suggest, but I've got the head porting covered already. I'm not going to change my exhaust - I am adamant about that. Thanks for your input

As far as not fast enough for me, I bet it will be plenty fast for what I want to do with the car. If I want a really fun, fast car, I'm not going to start with a 4600 pound daily driver!

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by OINK 1

Trash gear set, they keep the motor from getting to optimum r.p.m. range for best gas
mileage.
Run 3:55's GUARANTEED better milage than 2:73's !!
Cam Ultra-Dyne 280/284 hr12+6 226/230@ .050 .530" lift
I put this cam in a Grand Ville with a 462 I built. 18 m.p.g. @ 70 m.p.h.
Ram air exh. manifolds.
If you want the cam and lifters etc. call 1-303-776-0877

Pontiac Gregg
Visa/ M/C
800+ Pontiac Motors built !!

I'm not going to move to 2.73s, as I do not want the added noise and wear of spinning this motor at 3,000 rpm at 70mph on the freeway. I don't know of too many old V8s like this that survive 200k+ miles with that kind of rear gear behind them. No, the 2.73s stay. Under no circumstances will I be changing the gears, nor my exhaust. That's just not negotiable.

What kind of idle quality did that cam have? Can it pass for stock, or nearly so?

[gtome]

I with ya on the gears! I Went from a 2:56 to 3:42's and have regreted it ever since. Also I never really checked my gas mileage before, but it sure seems to go quicker now! I hate listening to my engine scream........ barely keeping up with traffic on the highways.

Keep plowing through the info, you will find what your looking for. And i totally get where you are coming from. Why replace all good, and liked parts (exhaust etc...). If I were to build another engine, this would be the same sort of route I would take. I just cant use 500 hp on the street. And I have no intention of loosing my car and license to show some dummy in a Honda that my car is fast.

I do think one of those Cont 13" converters would suprise you though!

[BIGBLUE]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

My basic requirements are simple: As much power/torque as I can make, while still retaining a relatively smooth idle, while keeping it "looking" stock on the outside(heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, etc), and most importantly it MUST run on 87 octane fuel all day long. This motor will be in a full size '71 Bonneville with stock rebuilt TH400 w/stock stall speed converter and 2.73 highway gears. The emphasis should be on low end torque, but with a touch of top end to throw in. Still keeping that smooth idle. No major lope for me!

14's won't be all that hard in my opinion. I am running a very similar car to yours, and my first 455 with an ordinary flat tappet cam and 6X's with a professional 5 angle valve job and headers allowed me to run low 14's with small street rubber and 2.73 open gears. The thing is the combination of parts. Sounds like you already have a pretty good street mix in mind. I would go with the smallest Hydraulic roller you can find, one like this: http://cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...tType=camshaft
, or perhaps the one that I'm using (a similar one if you cannot find the crane) http://cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...tType=camshaft
if you are willing to go a bit higher in compression, but first I would give the nod to the smaller cam.

Either of those cams will idle pretty smooth (the first like a hot stocker, but much better lobes and lift), and can get you into the 14's with the rest of your parts, the bigger one will roar from an idle to 5 grand, the smaller one will pull really hard to 4,500. Either cam will FRY the tires in a 455 with 2.73 gears, even in a 4,500+ lb ride. Your problems will revolve around traction. If you are only using 87 octane, I would keep the compression ratio of your build somewhere in the region of 8.75 to one with those cast iron heads and if you decide to use premium fuel and the bigger cam 9.25 to one, and make sure your advance curve is not coming in too quick. In all honesty I would allow the cam to do the work in filling the cylinders, and they setup the compression and timing of the combination to match. Some people get fixated on using a certain compression ratio, and then matching the cam to that, but for a street torque monster in the ordinary range of a stock V8, you want great volumetric efficiency first on the low end and midrange, and tune everything else based on that premise. Getting the maximum amount of air and gas into the engine at any RPM has the potential for making the most torque at that RPM, and hence the most power at that RPM as well. That's why turbo charged cars are willing to run low compression ratios and retarded timing, but still make big power. Good cylinder filling.

Don't go with the mantra that a big cam will work as long as the compression ratio is high, not for a torque oriented ride with tall gears and an RPM limit of 4,500, it's a mistake based on following the heard. A big cam can be made to work, but by what you outlined you are looking for a superior stock range engine, and too big a cam will handicap your efforts.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by BIGBLUE

14's won't be all that hard in my opinion. I am running a very similar car to yours, and my first 455 with an ordinary flat tappet cam and 6X's with a professional 5 angle valve job and headers allowed me to run low 14's with small street rubber and 2.73 open gears. The thing is the combination of parts. Sounds like you already have a pretty good street mix in mind. I would go with the smallest Hydraulic roller you can find, one like this: http://cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...tType=camshaft
, or perhaps the one that I'm using (a similar one if you cannot find the crane) http://cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...tType=camshaft
if you are willing to go a bit higher in compression, but first I would give the nod to the smaller cam.

Either of those cams will idle pretty smooth (the first like a hot stocker, but much better lobes and lift), and can get you into the 14's with the rest of your parts, the bigger one will roar from an idle to 5 grand, the smaller one will pull really hard to 4,500. Either cam will FRY the tires in a 455 with 2.73 gears, even in a 4,500+ lb ride. Your problems will revolve around traction. If you are only using 87 octane, I would keep the compression ratio of your build somewhere in the region of 8.75 to one with those cast iron heads and if you decide to use premium fuel and the bigger cam 9.25 to one, and make sure your advance curve is not coming in too quick. In all honesty I would allow the cam to do the work in filling the cylinders, and they setup the compression and timing of the combination to match. Some people get fixated on using a certain compression ratio, and then matching the cam to that, but for a street torque monster in the ordinary range of a stock V8, you want great volumetric efficiency first on the low end and midrange, and tune everything else based on that premise. Getting the maximum amount of air and gas into the engine at any RPM has the potential for making the most torque at that RPM, and hence the most power at that RPM as well. That's why turbo charged cars are willing to run low compression ratios and retarded timing, but still make big power. Good cylinder filling.

Don't go with the mantra that a big cam will work as long as the compression ratio is high, not for a torque oriented ride with tall gears and an RPM limit of 4,500, it's a mistake based on following the heard. A big cam can be made to work, but by what you outlined you are looking for a superior stock range engine, and too big a cam will handicap your efforts.

Thank you, finally somebody that understands my goal! Someone that understands that it isn't about max power as it is working within specific, realistic goals. Thanks a bunch for your input!