[The Boss]

Could you order the 4-wheel disc brake option outside of the WS6 option in a 79 Formula?

[80ws6ta]

Yes. It was the J65 RPO code.

[The Boss]

Available on both the 2bbl & 4bbl 301 or just the 4bbl?

[80ws6ta]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that all you had to do was tell the dealer you wanted the upgrade in brakes and they would get it. The only way to be sure would be to get a PHS and see if it comes up in the RPO code listing (unless you have the original build sheet).

[2manyT/A'S]

According to Pontiac Selling Facts Sept 1978, J65 (power brakes,front & rear disc) were available on ALL W66 Formulas with 4bbl.301/350c V8 engines & WS4 Trans ams for 150.00.

There were included with WS6 option.

301/305 2bbl & V6 were NOT eligible.

[The Boss]

Thanks guys, that's the information I was looking for. So no guarantee it's a WS6 car, but the 4-Wheel disc does guarantee it's the 4bbl version (since the engine code doesn't differentiate, and the Formula could be ordered with either).

Now the follow-up question.....when delivered in a 4spd Formula, how anemic is the 301 @ 150 HP??? I've found a super low mileage original paint/interior car optioned pretty nicely that I can pick up fairly reasonably. But will the ride/drive be enjoyable, or merely look nice?

[2manyT/A'S]

If you give me the engine code from vin,we should be able to figure out the carb size.

Which trans does it have,Saginaw or ST-10?

[The Boss]

Engine code is W, don't know which trans. Would the disc rear only come as a posi or could it be open?

[muscle_collector]

does anyone have a copy of a phs with the disc rear without the ws6? i dont think i have ever seen one myself.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Engine code is W, don't know which trans. Would the disc rear only come as a posi or could it be open?

i personally have never seen a disc rear that wasnt posi. (not that they didnt make it). i have had several of the 301 4 speed t/a's over the years and all of them that i had, have had the disc rear and they all had 3:08 gears instead of the 3:23 like the 400 cars got. i wander if you could have ordered them with the 3:23????

[The Boss]

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

[gto4door]

Boss,
If it is the Sierra Copper Formula that I think you are considering............who cares if it is a slug or not. That is a very clean low mile car at a very good price. Buy it!

[W72-Bandit]

Perfect candidate for a swap!
As for 4 wheel disc, There were 33,819 '79 WS6 cars and 34,203 J65 4 wheel disc cars. So figuring all WS6 were 4 wheel disc then there were 384 cars built with 4 wheel disc that were not WS6 equipped. I've never seen one myself, but apparently they're out there.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

[gto4door]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

This is an interesting thread and a great learning experience for me on these 301 4-speed Formulas.

We really need The Boss (Chris) to chime back in to tell us more about this car. If it is indeed the Sierra Copper Formula that I am thinking Chris is trying to buy, this particular car is a non-A/C car and was built June 1979. From that info can you tell what transmission the car may have?

I agree clutch pedal '79 -'81 F-body cars are few and far between. BUY IT!

[The Boss]

Just ordered the PHS.

[2manyT/A'S]

I'd say the 2bbl. 301 got a Saginaw & the 4bbl. got a ST-10.

Let us know what it is.

[The Boss]

Pretty sure gto4door knows the car - small world.

Sierra Copper over Camel Tan Custom Velour shipped in June of 1979, MSRP $8,190.55.

W50 Appearance package w/stripes
L37 4.9 Litre (301) 4BBL
G80 Differential, Limited Slip
AK1 Belts, Custom Color Keyed
C49 Defroster, Electric Rear Window
U17 I/P Tachometer, Rally Gauges
A01 Glass, all windows soft ray
BS1 Insulation, Additional Acoustical
TR9 Lamp Group
B37 Mats, Front & Rear Floor
B80 Molding, Roof Drip
U75 Power Antenna
AU3 Power Door Locks
UN9 Radio Accommodation Package
N33 Steering Wheel, Tilt
WS6 Special Performance Package
CD4 Windshield Wipers, Controlled Cycle
B18 Custom Trim Group - Hobnail Velour

No transmission specified - I would guess because it was a $0.00 cost option - Seller says it's a close ratio, so whatever that one is. Radio prep & power Antenna is interesting - there is a stock looking AM/FM 8-track in it now.

From what I've been told the car was ordered for the dealer's daughter's HS graduation. She didn't drive it much, and the second owner drove it even less. Current mileage is 43,000. I think I'm going to buy it.

gto4door - PM me any details you might have on the car that I've missed....Thanks.

[The Boss]

Just got an e-mail from Jim Mattison answering the question for me:

Chris,



Both the 4-speed and automatic transmissions were no charge options and only

an option with a cost will show on the dealer invoice. The 4-speed transmission

should be a Borg Warner Super T-10.



Jim M.

[W72-Bandit]

Sure sounds like a sweet one. Post a couple if you get the chance.