[rad400]

I think we can make a Dolorean that could fit 3 lol.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Don,
This is Royal's 1964 GeeTeeOoh! Dick Jess and Jim Wangers shared driving "Royal's Tuff LiL".

Since at the end of the 1964 model year Jim Wangers was asked, corrected told, he could no longer officially race Dick went on to do his own cars. Here are Royal Pontiac's high performance salesman Dick Jesse's cars.

Royal only wanted to be known for it stock class race cars. So Dick Jesse was sponsored first by one of Royal Pontic's Race car suppliers/race car mechanic's shops. Clarence Walthers' Highland Park Transmission in Highland Park, MI. Then in 1966 Dick was sponsored by Stan Long Pontiac.

Here is Pete Seaton's '63 Catalina SD 421 sponsored by Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac. Pete's dad was a General Motors VP. Pete's dad asked Jim Wangers get his son into racing. Pete went onto campaign many Chevrolets known as "Seaton's Shakers".

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Don,
This is Royal's 1964 GeeTeeOoh! Dick Jess and Jim Wangers shared driving "Royal's Tuff LiL".

Since at the end of the 1964 model year Jim Wangers was asked, corrected told, he could no longer officially race Dick went on to do his own cars. Here are Royal Pontiac's high performance salesman Dick Jesse's cars.

Royal only wanted to be known for it stock class race cars. So Dick Jesse was sponsored first by one of Royal Pontic's Race car suppliers/race car mechanic's shops. Clarence Walthers' Highland Park Transmission in Highland Park, MI. Then in 1966 Dick was sponsored by Stan Long Pontiac.

Here is Pete Seaton's '63 Catalina SD 421 sponsored by Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac. Pete's dad was a General Motors VP. Pete's dad asked Jim Wangers get his son into racing. Pete went onto campaign many Chevrolets known as "Seaton's Shakers".

Cool, thanks for the pics & info.

This is the first Ive seen and heard that Royal had a 1964 GTO. Any info on the times it posted?? Also the 1965 GTO Royal drag car arent spoken of much either.

Its the 1966 GeeTeeOh GTO's you get more info/read about.

Thanks,
Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by SD421

Cool, thanks for the pics & info.

This is the first Ive seen and heard that Royal had a 1964 GTO. Any info on the times it posted?? Also the 1965 GTO Royal drag car arent spoken of much either.

Its the 1966 GeeTeeOh GTO's you get more info/read about.

Thanks,
Don

I really don't remember the times on the '64 GTO. As for the '65 I'm beating Keith can come up with that one. I have a few articles on Dick's car but it will take me some time to find them. But Dick's cars are not sponsored by Royal. I'll post them if Keith doesn't.

Eric

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I really don't remember the times on the '64 GTO. As for the '65 I'm beating Keith can come up with that one. I have a few articles on Dick's car but it will take me some time to find them. But Dick's cars are not sponsored by Royal. I'll post them if Keith doesn't.

Eric

While we wait to see if Keith has any info on Dick's 1965 Mr. Unswitchable and some changes to it.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

While we wait to see if Keith has any info on Dick's 1965 Mr. Unswitchable and some changes to it.

Good morning, all (no internet at the new house yet).

Was there something in particular you wanted to ask about? Those articles are pretty comprehensive, with lots of nice detail pics (enough information there that if a person wanted to do a "tribute" car they could do it easily enough).

My undertanding is that this car was likely one of the 5 white early builds. They must have still been owned by either Pontiac Engineering, or by the dealership, as Dick got in trouble for cutting it up (altering the wheelbase).

Dad made the fuel injection manifold on that car, by starting with an Olds unit and adapting it to fit.

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

How about the 1967 test session at Motor City Dragway. Most people think Royal kept going back to the drag strip for every magazine article. Not true.

Look in the back ground and you will see a couple more Firebirds. One of the Firebirds is the Mystery Bird and the other one is for the compairson of the automatic vs the 4 speed Firebird test.

I want you to look closely at the picture of Sid Warren where he is puting the wing nut onto the air cleaner lid. Can you see the edge of the ram air pan that holds the foam? Is it a smooth edge like stamped steel or a rough wavy edge you'd find on fiberglass? Humm.

Many times the slower driver got the fastest car and the faster driver the slower car to keep things at least close if not even. There was a reason we call John Poitzer "Cheater". Look at the way he lines up the 2+2 at the light. It is not straight. By coming in a little sideways he fools the starting light that he has a larger tire and the timer will not start until he breaks the beam. Think about it. There are several other tricks John would use. You'll note John usually gets them out of the hole.
My good buddy, John "Cheater" Polizter. Really...LOL

One more page just for a paragraph.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

How about the 1967 test session at Motor City Dragway. Most people think Royal kept going back to the drag strip for every magazine article. Not true.

Look in the back ground and you will see a couple more Firebirds. One of the Firebirds is the Mystery Bird and the other one is for the compairson of the automatic vs the 4 speed Firebird test.

I want you to look closely at the picture of Sid Warren where he is puting the wing nut onto the air cleaner lid. Can you see the edge of the ram air pan that holds the foam? Is it a smooth edge like stamped steel or a rough wavy edge you'd find on fiberglass? Humm.

Many times the slower driver got the fastest car and the faster driver the slower car to keep things at least close if not even. There was a reason we call John Poitzer "Cheater". Look at the way he lines up the 2+2 at the light. It is not straight. By coming in a little sideways he fools the starting light that he has a larger tire and the timer will not start until he breaks the beam. Think about it. There are several other tricks John would use. You'll note John usually gets them out of the hole.
My good buddy, John "Cheater" Polizter. Really...LOL

One more page just for a paragraph.

Sorry for all of the questions but this particular article is making me think!!! lol

Why didn't Royal do any Magazine articles of putting the big car engines into the A body cars??
A 421 into a 1965 or 1966 GTO or the 428 into a 1967 GTO. You think Wangers would have been trying to show every type of combo to sell the GTO.

I know there is the 1968 GTO "The Bossman" that did have a 428 put into it for a magazine article.

Just curious,
Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by SD421

Sorry for all of the questions but this particular article is making me think!!! lol

Why didn't Royal do any Magazine articles of putting the big car engines into the A body cars??
A 421 into a 1965 or 1966 GTO or the 428 into a 1967 GTO. You think Wangers would have been trying to show every type of combo to sell the GTO.

I know there is the 1968 GTO "The Bossman" that did have a 428 put into it for a magazine article.

Just curious,
Don

Don,
I came across another magazine article for you to digest on buying a 1968 428. it was in "Popluar Hot Rodding" September 1968. But again it is in a new Firebird.
Eric

[ANDYA]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Don,
I came across another magazine article for you to digest on buying a 1968 428. it was in "Popluar Hot Rodding" September 1968. But again it is in a new Firebird.
Eric

That is one of the Myrtle Motors prepared 428 Firebirds. Myrtle Motors was in Queens, NYC and Harry Wesch was the man behind the program. Unfortunately, they never did that many cars. I don't know the #'s but probably less than 10 were built. They would put in a 428 and give it their version of a Bobcat treatment.

They also had some lettered-up cars that the delearship campained at race tracks. A friend of mine who knew Harry said they sold one of those cars (a 67 Bird) to an employee of the delearship who drove that car around the streets of Brooklyn/Queens all lettered-up for years until he sold it to it's current owner. The guy who has the car now painted it over and put a Chevy motor in it. Despite attempts of local Pontiac guys to buy the car and restore it to as raced condition the current owner refuses to sell

Going back to my friend who knew Harry Wesch, in 1968 he wanted to purchase a Ram Air II GTO. He went to several local Pontiac delearships but they told him the car did not exist. Finally he went to Myrtle Motors and asked. They heard of the option and agreed to order him a car. My friend said they didn't know what to charge so they charged him the price of a base GTO. The car was red, black interior, 4-speed with a bench seat. Before picking up the car he had Harry give the car Myrtle's Bobcat type treatment. In later years Harry told my friend his car was the only GTO to get that treatment as they concentrated more on Firebirds. The first time out at the track the car ran 13 flat. Later on he took it to Nunzi who got the car to run 12.70's with further tunning. In the late 70's he sold the car to a guy who took out the Ram Air II and 4-speed and put in a regular 400 with auto trans so he could drive the car daily. Several years later the guy called my friend and told him the car was parked outside his house and if he wanted the GTO back he could come and get it for free. By the time my friend got down to this guys house 2 days later the NYC Dept of Sanitation had already picked up the car and crushed it. Today the only thing left is the Ram Air II motor which my friend still has.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by ANDYA

That is one of the Myrtle Motors prepared 428 Firebirds. Myrtle Motors was in Queens, NYC and Harry Wesch was the man behind the program. Unfortunately, they never did that many cars. I don't know the #'s but probably less than 10 were built. They would put in a 428 and give it their version of a Bobcat treatment.

They also had some lettered-up cars that the delearship campained at race tracks. A friend of mine who knew Harry said they sold one of those cars (a 67 Bird) to an employee of the delearship who drove that car around the streets of Brooklyn/Queens all lettered-up for years until he sold it to it's current owner. The guy who has the car now painted it over and put a Chevy motor in it. Despite attempts of local Pontiac guys to buy the car and restore it to as raced condition the current owner refuses to sell

Going back to my friend who knew Harry Wesch, in 1968 he wanted to purchase a Ram Air II GTO. He went to several local Pontiac delearships but they told him the car did not exist. Finally he went to Myrtle Motors and asked. They heard of the option and agreed to order him a car. My friend said they didn't know what to charge so they charged him the price of a base GTO. The car was red, black interior, 4-speed with a bench seat. Before picking up the car he had Harry give the car Myrtle's Bobcat type treatment. In later years Harry told my friend his car was the only GTO to get that treatment as they concentrated more on Firebirds. The first time out at the track the car ran 13 flat. Later on he took it to Nunzi who got the car to run 12.70's with further tunning. In the late 70's he sold the car to a guy who took out the Ram Air II and 4-speed and put in a regular 400 with auto trans so he could drive the car daily. Several years later the guy called my friend and told him the car was parked outside his house and if he wanted the GTO back he could come and get it for free. By the time my friend got down to this guys house 2 days later the NYC Dept of Sanitation had already picked up the car and crushed it. Today the only thing left is the Ram Air II motor which my friend still has.

Andya,
I remember an article on Harry and his son's in the mmm early 1980's Harry had stuck a 400 with HO manifolds into an early 1980's Grand Prix. I think one of the son's had an early Firebird. Good article for the time.
Eric

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Last paragraph....

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is what two over the hill street racers look like trying to change the ecentric on my 68 428 GTO Royal Bobcat last year.
It was John that was excited to get his hands dirty and get it done.

So I ask myself, why am I always the one one getting dity when it was John's idea? It must be the age thing.... I can still get up off the ground without groaning. You know at John age it gets more difficult. Just kidding John!

Say, do you like my classic wooden creeper?

It was my wife Janis that wanted to document this. LOL

P.S. This is John "Cheater" Politzer.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Ahhh. Now you want me to dig up those artilces too.

But first for the same reason Jim was told to stop appearing in the magazines he had to first and foremost promote Pontiac on behave of all of the dealers around the country. Jim had many hats but he worked for the ad agency. Very few dealership wanted to even get near performance. They just wanted to sell sedans.

Remeber at first Royal Pontiac was only a testing ground to see there was an interest in dealerships handling performance equiptment. From there Royal Pontiac really became the high performance distrbutorship to the other dealers around the country.

Give a little time and I'll get you those.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Ahhh. Now you want me to dig up those artilces too.

But first for the same reason Jim was told to stop appearing in the magazines he had to first and foremost promote Pontiac on behave of all of the dealers around the country. Jim had many hats but he worked for the ad agency. Very few dealership wanted to even get near performance. They just wanted to sell sedans.

Remeber at first Royal Pontiac was only a testing ground to see there was an interest in dealerships handling performance equiptment. From there Royal Pontiac really became the high performance distrbutorship to the other dealers around the country.

Give a little time and I'll get you those.

LOL I thought that would be your answer!! LOL

Thanks again Doc,

Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is an article on the 1968 GTO 428 Royal Pontiac Bobcat. This red GTO appeared in several article that year with different engines including the 400 Ram Air II.

As soon as I dig it up I'll give you a 428 Firebird test.

By the way all of the locals knew we could get the 421 and 428's and did. As I put in one of my earlier posts my friend Les Goodman had royal put in a 428 with Ram Air IV heads when his original 400 was ruined.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is the 1968 Firebird 428 test. There where other dealerships beside Royal doing the convertions. Royal is mentioned in the article.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is a second artile on Dick's 1965 GTO.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

A complete article on Dick Jesse's very advanced thinking 1966 GTO.

[goatman65]

I want the Royal plate on your 68.lol.
Is that an original from 'back in the day'?