[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

I noticed in the photos on post #349 that the 389 valve covers are both turned with the 'pyramids' to the rear....Do that around here you'll get called out on it pretty quickly as having the passenger's side cover on backwards.
Never did hear what those 'pyramids' were for...

Greg,
Look closely at the on stand shot. The valve covers are not bolted on. In the installed shot you will see the valve covers are on correctly. Mountain forward on passenger side with drivers side mountain to the fire wall.

I don't know the reason for the mountain on only one side. But, I did ask the late Mac McKellar why the oil sheilds, under the 1967 valve covers and newer engines and over the rockers arm that, where replaced by valve covers with drippers on them and no oil shields? Was there an oiling problem?

Mac's answer was that this was the inventor in him. It was a cost savings only. Never a oiling problem on top.

Eric

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Greg,
Look closely at the on stand shot. The valve covers are not bolted on. In the installed shot you will see the valve covers are on correctly. Mountain forward on passenger side with drivers side mountain to the fire wall.

I don't know the reason for the mountain on only one side. But, I did ask the late Mac McKellar why the oil sheilds, under the 1967 valve covers and newer engines and over the rockers arm that, where replaced by valve covers with drippers on them and no oil shields? Was there an oiling problem?

Mac's answer was that this was the inventor in him. It was a cost savings only. Never a oiling problem on top.

Eric

Yep, I see the passenger side flipped back around correctly on the engine compartment shot. Missed that before.... and the pre-'67 valve cover mystery goes on...

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Never did hear what those 'pyramids' were for...

I was going to ask Mac that the next time I saw him. He unfortunately passed away before I had a chance -

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I was going to ask Mac that the next time I saw him. He unfortunately passed away before I had a chance -

Well, if anyone knew I guess it would have been him.

[brut4s]

Thank you Dr. Schiffer! I don't mind seeing those pictures, not sure if anyone else does or not.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is Tony Knieper's '67 Firebird and the annoucement by Stan Long Pontiac of his death in June 1968.

The '68 Firebird aka Jim Wangers"Black bird" was orginally ordered by Tony of his brother Mike. Both having been killed in the towing accident the family wanted out of racing. John Ploitzer was friends with the Knieper's and made arrangments for Jim Wangers to purchase the '68 Firebird "Black Bird"

Here is a link to Tony Knieper.
http://www.colesy-juniorstockforum.c....php?f=6&t=188

[goatman65]

How old were all these guys back then? they look very young.
These stories are great,especially with the pics,some which i have never seen.
I like reading the street racing stories the most.And its always better when they are told by the guys that were 'there',the ones involving 'The Cheater' are interesting.
You usually only hear or read about Wangers or Shornack,its nice to hear from the 'lesser known' guys that were behind the scenes.

It would be really great if someone could sit down with some of these guys for some bench-racing and record it for video.

[brut4s]

How old were all these guys back then? they look very young.
These stories are great,especially with the pics,some which i have never seen.
I like reading the street racing stories the most.And its always better when they are told by the guys that were 'there',the ones involving 'The Cheater' are interesting.
You usually only hear or read about Wangers or Shornack,its nice to hear from the 'lesser known' guys that were behind the scenes.

It would be really great if someone could sit down with some of these guys for some bench-racing and record it for video.

X2 or a book! Lucky we still have some around to ask these questions. Also lucky we have this forum because the chances are we would never meet them in person.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Yes, I agree a comprehensive book or video documentry with interviews of as many of the guys who where there should have been done. You would get a better idea of what went on through many eyes.

Funny, as I'm typing this John "Cheater" Politzer called. He said for the right amount of money he'll give the "real" story. Don't ask! He has his reason's for not telling many people what he used to do and I respect him for it.

I have given this link to several of the guys. Some have been to other forums that attack them or just waste their time. Most of the guys are not computer literate and don't want to attempt learning. Others just hate typing.

Some just feel that they don't want to argue a point ie; he said, she said position and then asked to prove it. I understand that too. We have all been to those forums.

To these guys what went on back then was just a job. A way to get a pay check and feed their families. Those that are still a live have no idea that people have an interest in what they did as a living. To guys like me street racing and hanging out with car guys was a time to escape the studying and worring about the draft.

Win Brown is always willing to discuss what they did back then. Win has trouble writing, probably do to arthritis in his hands and has on and off health problems. When he is feelling well he meets with a bunch of the old "High End" club guys on Thusrday night. I participate once in a great while. But that group too is dwindling. Last time I went with Fast Fredie Foreman, Jim Wangers driver of the Monza. There were just four of us that night. I had found out that several had past away. Some were too sick to come out or were nursing sick wives.

The "High End" club that began in the 1950's is what should have been written about in a Detroit Street racing book. It happened every Thursday night. It was fantastic!

Back to Royal guys:
Chuck Broomfield while he could get out about five Royal Bobcat kits installed in a day. He had a bottle of Maalox at his station in the service area back then. I understand he is still around.

Sid Warren lives in Florida. Dave Warren is a sales mgr at Moran Chevrolet. John Politzer is also a car salesman/broker.

Brian Ballish is back to playing with cars and I have forward him this link a few weeks ago. He seemed excited about the link since he was THE GUY behind building the Black bird.

Frank Redicker Jr. has pictures and film from track events of Royal. But no matter how many times he talks about it. Or how many times people have asked him. He has done nothing. No one has seen anything from him. To bad too.

Enough.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Chuck Broomfield while he could get out about five Royal Bobcat kits installed in a day. He had a bottle of Maalox at his station in the service area back then. I understand he is still around.

I've mentioned before, but Dad would go down to Royal, load up with five or six tripower setups, "Bobcat" them at home and then take them back to Charlie to install on customer cars.

Same thing with transmissions (converting wide ratio trans to close ratio).

Naturally, if one of them turned out particularly nice - he would keep that one for himself....

[rad400]

I wish I could here some of the good 'ol stories from these guys.

[LUST01]

Mesa changed it's area code in the mid 90's from 602 to 480.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by LUST01

Mesa changed it's area code in the mid 90's from 602 to 480.

Sounds right.

I was at the DPG from 1990 to 1994 (Jan 2, 1994 was my first day relocated back here in Michigan).

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Artist David Snyder did a new print of Royal Pontiac called "Bobcats". "Old Cars Weekly" used it on the cover of this weeks issue, November 24, 2011.

David featured my '68 GTO Royal Bobcat convertible up front on the street. Jim Wangers' Judge and '69 Bobcat are in the isle parallel to the street with hoods up. The magazine cover cuts out the old magazine cover shot of Arnie Beswick '68 GTO getting the 428 put into it by Dave Warren and Milt which are seen in the real poster.

The poster can be had at Dave Snyder Carart web site. I all ready bought two and ordered four extra "Old Car Weekly's".

I

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

"Old Cars Magazine" cover Nov. 24, 2011. Here is the art work from Dave Snyder. "Bobcats" just completed and "Royal Pontiac" a view from 1969.

"Bobcats" shows my '68 GTO convert Royal Bobcat on the street, in front of the used car lot. Jim Wanger's Judge and Bobcat are in the isle behind the front row used cars. In the background you have a recreation of an old magazine, and resent redue, of Dave Warren with the assistance of Milt lowering a 428 into the engine bay of Arnie Beswick's friends '68 GTO. The front end of Jim Wangers' red '65 GTO's with hood up and engine bay exposed in front row of used car is shown close left. Dave took some artistic lisence and chaged the look of Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac's building. Unlike his "Royal Pontiac" poster which is more accurate.

"Old Cars Weekly" cut the picture along the left side. Eliminating Jim Wangers' '65 GTO and the rear service bay with the engine going into the GTO.

The "Royal Pontiac" poster has many interesting items. The '69 Firebird "Royal" race car in show room. Ace Wilson Jr. is standing next to his personel black '69 GTO convertible black Ram Air III at the side showroom entrance. Jim Wangers is standing in the middle of the used car lot. Jim Wangers' Judge and Bobcat are in the far driveway getting ready to go hunting.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Pontiac engineers, Tom Nell, Tom Goad and Herb Adams worked on an aluminum 507 cid engine for racing in the early '70's for their pet Trans Am and road racing series.

Several of these blocks are floating around the country. Along with Ram Air V aluminum heads and a Ram Air V aluminum intake with fuel injection system.

You'll find some of my notes along the edge. Several years ago I asked a friend of mine who built dies for Moldex and worked with Sevakis Industries to see if they still have the old Pontiac engine dies or if any one remembers the project. No one at either company worked there back than. After a while these companies usually just call a scrap company to pick up the old dies that will sit outside on pallets until disposed of for pennies on the pound.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is Royal Pontiac's 1968 "Red" Royal Bobcat no longer with a 428 as in "Car and Driver" but now sporting a Ram Air II engine for two "Cars Magazine" tests.

In the June 1968 issue look closely at the photo shot with the GTO at the line. There are two men standing there. The one on the right with a white hat and sun glasses is Jim Wangers. He got caught at a test. Shhh don't tell any one. Some other Pontiac Dealership may get upset.LOL

The second article is from "Cars" magazine November '68 issue with "Motion" doing their "Top Cat" set up on the "red' GTO Bobcat Ram Air II.

That's Dave Warren at the drag strips starters post. Dave would continue to tune the car until it ran at it's full potential!

I'm hoping your beginning to understand who was really responsible for building and tuned these Bobcats......

The last words have to go on next "reply".

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Here is Royal Pontiac's 1968 "Red" Royal Bobcat no longer with a 428 as in "Car and Driver" but now sporting a Ram Air II engine for two "Cars Magazine" tests.

In the June 1968 issue look closely at the photo shot with the GTO at the line. There are two men standing there. The one on the right with a white hat and sun glasses is Jim Wangers. He got caught at a test. Shhh don't tell any one. Some other Pontiac Dealership may get upset.LOL

The second article is from "Cars" magazine November '68 issue with "Motion" doing their "Top Cat" set up on the "red' GTO Bobcat Ram Air II.

That's Dave Warren at the drag strips starters post. Dave would continue to tune the car until it ran at it's full potential!

I'm hoping your beginning to understand who was really responsible for building and tuned these Bobcats......

The last words have to go on next "reply".

By the way there are 2 not one 1968 GTO Royal Bobcat Ram Air II's in this test. The one coming at you has a front license plate of GA-0448 and only a white pin stripe over the fender back towards the Royal Bobcat emblem on the door. The side 68 Ram Air banner is hung higher on this car then the other. It's top edge of the banner is much higher then the mid belt line of the car. The banner on the other car has the top edge along the mid belt line of the car.

The GTO launching with the D/S in the rear quarter window and Dave Warren standing in the starters box with his back to you, has a Black rear deck, a white pin strip along the tops of the rear quarter panels up an around the top of the rear window and a dealer license plate. A dealer plate has three numbers (3) a small letter D than two (2) more numbers. Look very closely athe the details of the cars! ie 234 D 56

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

The GTO launching with the D/S in the rear quarter window and Dave Warren standing in the starters box with his back to you, has a Black rear deck, a white pin strip along the tops of the rear quarter panels up an around the top of the rear window and a dealer license plate.

Eric - I think I have mentioned to you that our silver '68 had a black deck (trunk lid and up around the back window, no pinstripe).

One of my NMCA racer buddies had a red car with the black deck, and I think there may have been (at least) one more but I don't recall what color.

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Keith,
You have mentioned the silver one you had. I'd like to drive it home that several 1968 and 1969 GTO's that rolled out of Royal Pontiac had the Bobcat paint scheme. Not just one white one with gold trim in 1968 and one crystal turquoise one with with trim in 1969.

I beleive I also mentioned that my friend Les Goodman had a 1968 turquoise GTO 428 with white accents done by Royal too.

Jerry Will's brother, I have to use Jerry's name because I don't remember his brother's first name, worked for George Delorean in 1968-69 and still has his '69 white GTO Ram Air IV with crystal tourquise accents that he bought new. Low mileage car but he refuses to bring it out. Jerry has a 1969 Judge.

If look closley at the pictures you will also notice that two of them have black around the rear window and over the trunk. But one has stripes to simulate a luggage but in paint.

There was one done on Royal Bobcat on the west coast that George Barris did in flat black and the trunk stripes. This could be the one pictured being driven away by Milt.

You still have to explain how you get your pictures in the main body of the "Post Reply"!? LOL

Eric