[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by rustedgoat

Seriously, I can not understand how everyone keeps referring to Tribal Tubes as a ponzi scam. He is trying to make a product for a very, very limited market. If there are no sales theres no income and overhead costs still need to be payed. Do you really think there were/are enough orders placed to make this a "scam" worth doing? How many headers are owed to people 10, 20, 30? Do the math, your might be talking about $20,000 over how many years. It might be more, it might be less but your not talking about enough to even be considerer something that is a planned scam.

Yes, I ordered 2 sets and I received them. I ordered when things were moving along and I would order again if I needed to.

So your saying....by producing a product that has a limited audience he can take money and not supply a product?

If the market is restricted then he isn't charging enough for the product.

Maybe you can offer one set of your headers to someone who didn't get any?

[ClassicDriverMan]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

So your saying....by producing a product that has a limited audience he can take money and not supply a product?

If the market is restricted then he isn't charging enough for the product.

Maybe you can offer one set of your headers to someone who didn't get any?

+1 to that!

[rustedgoat]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

So your saying....by producing a product that has a limited audience he can take money and not supply a product?

If the market is restricted then he isn't charging enough for the product.

Maybe you can offer one set of your headers to someone who didn't get any?

Didn't say anything like that at all. If bills aren't paid you get shut down, end of story. I would have done things differently, but I'm not Ron. I timed my purchases when other people were ordering and orders were being shipped. I hope everyone does get their headers. Its a shame that its a catch 22 for him new orders are going to be slow coming in if old orders aren't filled. Old orders are cant be filled until new orders come in. People owed headers have every right to complain but that isn't going to change the situation. Anyone placing an order is aware of delays and possibly very long delays. I just think crook, scam, ponzi are all wrong in this case. Headers do seem to be going out and hopefully with warmer weather coming more orders get placed and things get caught up this year. Still have no idea on the quantity of headers have owed to people.
Good luck to all

[73ta]

Originally Posted by rustedgoat

Seriously, I can not understand how everyone keeps referring to Tribal Tubes as a ponzi scam. He is trying to make a product for a very, very limited market. If there are no sales theres no income and overhead costs still need to be payed. Do you really think there were/are enough orders placed to make this a "scam" worth doing? How many headers are owed to people 10, 20, 30? Do the math, your might be talking about $20,000 over how many years. It might be more, it might be less but your not talking about enough to even be considerer something that is a planned scam.

Yes, I ordered 2 sets and I received them. I ordered when things were moving along and I would order again if I needed to.

Definition of a Ponzi Scheme: Ponzi scam — where money from new investors is used to pay out old ones. Exactly what's happening!

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by 73ta

Definition of a Ponzi Scheme: Ponzi scam — where money from new investors is used to pay out old ones. Exactly what's happening!

Not really in this case, as I see it. Money is going to pay for headers being built and hopefully sent out to those who recently ordered them. I wish I had bought a set when Aron posted that a built set were for sale. But, this thread prevented me from doing so. I have a conscious.

I wish everyone nothing but good luck.

[tom s]

I have watched this forever,knew Ron before he ever started this venture.The reason for the failure(and it is a biz failure)IMO is he is not making enough money off of each set he sells.The reason the others are more expensive is the reason the co are still in biz.If you cant make the proper profit to cover the materials and the cost of doing biz it will fail.Your better off making a million friends and borrow a dollar from each.Tom

[AG]

A manufacturer offers a product for sale. The assumption is you pay for the product, you receive it in exchange for the $. That's the way it typically goes. When you go to the local parts store and pay for a master cylinder, you get a master cylinder. I was thinking of getting a set of his headers but no way now. Everyone who is sticking up for him should put themselves in the shoes of all the people who ordered headers months, and perhaps, over a year ago and not received them and see how they would feel. If i was one who sent out my money and got no headers and it had been a year, you would be calling me a hater because I would be hatin' big time. Simply unacceptable. When Ron comes on here and vaguely implies that some people aren't getting their headers because they are haters says it all for me. No thanks, I'll take a set of speed bump draggin' Doug's.

[Ccass]

For 65 pages and 8 years, we've allowed this topic to be the 'website' of this vendor. I don't want to pass judgement on the Vendor or the customers. Obviously there have been multiple sets of headers delivered by this source. Apparently there have been multiple headers that have not been delivered. Having this single topic serve as the device to communicate about all the transactions associated with these producs is now inappropriate. It's time for both the vendor and the customers to communicate via e-mail. If a customer would like to give us an update on an order he has placed, he may do so in the BBB section. If the Vendor would like to reply in each topic, he may do so as well as per our policies.

[aronhk_md]

Not sure where people are seeing the "cheerleaders" I'm the one doing a lot of the talking here, and I haven't in any way minimized the negatives. Every post I make sure to mention them. Do I think the positives outweigh the negatives right now? No. I really think there is no new money rolling in for Ron.

I dont talk to him that often. When I do I hear the frustration, and I get the sense he is still trying. Thats just my opinion though. If what he told me is true there is still hope for those waiting. Thats all I'll say.

On the other subject.....EVERY bird I've had has dragged 4 tube headers regardless of who made them, and I believe I've owned all the brands. Yes, some of my cars have been lowered, but some have probably just suffered from spring fatigue over the years. If it wasnt such a problem there wouldnt be thousands of posts across the internet with people complaining about every header out there.

[ramair3]

I ordered my set in February 2005. 6 and one half years ago. I sent Ron my own ball and socket connectors and did not want to bother with coating. He better not have sent mine out for coating! Anyway, I was told I was next to get mine by Aron and have yet to see delivery fourteen weeks later. According to Deanna (Ms. not ready for granny panties) 15 sets were to go to the coater on August 29. 4 weeks later and still nothing. He was able to buy plenty of material. He was able to fabricate all of bends and 2 into 1. All that was left was welding. Come on Ron, lets get our act together and get this behind us, and move on already.

[aronhk_md]

well.......I hope one of the admin here gives you a vacation. We dont need further BS. What you are doing contributes nothing.

[floffy]

Aron, thanks for helping people out and trying to make thing s work.

Daan

[aronhk_md]

YW Daan.

[Geronimo]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

Well, you just keep doing what feels right to you, and so will I. Everyone on this forum knows I'm a man of my word.

Larry, Daan, rcrta, sarge, geronimo and everyone else...I left a message for Ron to get back to me earlier and I havent heard back. I only have the one way to get hold of him, and then I get a call back. When I know more I'll contact the individuals and post here. YOU guys know I'm pulling for you. And I'm now the last person in line to get headers. Voluntarily.

P.S. - I dont make a penny from any of this. Just trying to help on both sides.

Aaron, It feels nice to be recognized and know that you are trying to persuade Ron to keep us in the loop. Thats all I have ever needed. I need to have hope I am going to have a kick-ass set of headers arriving. I don't really want to purchase another set. I guess if and when it comes down to that I will have to make a decision. Ron's actions speak much louder than the one phone conversation I had with him. I will pay extra $$ to get my headers ASAP, but will not use Pay-Pal any longer. I will send Ron certified check to his business address. I just don't like all the secrecy. I am open and honest in everything I do. What can I do to get my headers and help Ron prosper? Ron should make a good amount of profit for his skill and time involved. I have no problem rewarding any good product or service. Ron's service is killing the headers no matter how good they are. I run my shop much like any business owner with goals and timelines for my builds. I am now on hold because of Ron. Should I buy someone elses headers and sell these if and when they arrive? Is it going to be years, months, weeks or days? I need an honest answer so I can make plans and go on with my life.
Anyway Thank you for attempting to get us answers. I look forward to hearing from you or Ron.
Geronimo

[aronhk_md]

Thanks Geronimo......appreciate the acknowledgement. I really DO want the best for everyone here. All headers delivered AND a supply of Tri-Y headers for our community. I remember a few years ago wishing HO racing still made Tri-Y's. Would suck to go back to not having them available. Plus, I LIKE Ron, and want to see him succeed. I think he needs to do more communicating to make that happen, but thats something on his plate, not mine. I realized a long time ago that I'm not perfect. I dont expect friends to be either.

On the subject of additional money to make your headers appear faster...Ron wont do it. He really has morals, regardless of what some think here because new orders get filled before old. That was MY idea, not Ron's........and its ONLY TO PAY HIS BILLS. Without paying the bills it all goes away. Nobody gets anything then.

BUT......I did do this for one other customer......I convinced Ron to let ME take a new order for that person. He delivered the new set quickly, as agreed......with the other original set still pending. Thats an option for you I think, if you want to buy another set through me.

Again, I want to emphasize that the ONLY reason Ron will take new orders and fill them fast is because he is trying to keep the electric on, pay his rent, etc. Many think....oh well, I paid him $450....that $450 should go toward building MY headers. And in an ideal situation, I'd agree. Your average business owner with reserves of $ available can lay out cash when necessary for expenses. In Ron's case, if you just paid him $450 last Oct and he was trying to buy $3000 worth of tubing (cause he has to buy in bulk to get a halfway decent price), then your money went toward the tubing, and was gone. When it came time to fill a bottle with Argon for welding he might get stuck again briefly without cash on hand. Last year was tough for him.....not making excuses, just saying. He moved and had zero cash handy.

But he IS trying. Part of the struggle has been coming up with materials enough to build the 20 something (I think thats what it was) orders from 5 years ago when he went under back then. Think about it. Thats a lot of $$$. Not to mention the tooling he needed to continue. Thats thousands of $ worth of stuff he's putting out just to make things right.....and its not like he's making a fortune doing this.

And if you look at the past year, he IS getting people the headers. Its just been very slow and there have been hang ups. I really do think he is on the verge of taking care of a huge portion of the old orders. All at once.

I'll update you guys when I know more.

[richiedd]

OK......it seems like this week has been somewhat slow in terms of new hedders going out. I cannot recall much being reported. Hopefully Ron has a sleigh full to go out next week!

Although I have had my set for some time, I have only now (today) put them on. The first few pictures (I hope I have the sequence right) shows the Madd Dogs that I bought but they disappointingly hung low. The others are the Tri Y's from Ron. The difference is obvious.





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As you will note, the transmission pan hangs about the lowest under the car. That is a situation I can live with.

Cheers

[tom s]

custom built on the car are in the $1200-1500 range!Tom

[big_oil]

Hi Aron. It's been a while! This is Dave from NJ. Any news on my set? I ordered in November 2010

[aronhk_md]

Hey Dave....not really involved at present with who is next in line, so I'm not sure. But send me your # again and I'll give you a call.

Thanks Paul....you have the right idea. As long as he isnt scrambling to figure out how to pay the bills, he's able to make headers.

[drtracer58]

THANK YOU ARON , FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO HELP WITH THE ISSUES AT HAND AND FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR GREAT COUNTRY, ALSO NICE TO KNOW THAT YOU ENDURED THE DEDICATION TO GET THE M.D. BEHIND YOUR NAME, I ALSO WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ADVICE THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN TO ME AND OTHERS REGARDING THIS HOBBY/ADDICTION WE ARE ALL INVOLVED WITH,