[gtknapp]

I have a 2001 Bonnie Supercharged SSEi with 109K miles. The check engine light came on last week. Then the engine died. It would start for a few second then die, multiple times. I had the car towed to the nearest repair shop. They replaced the Mass air flow sensor and charged $300. Drove the car for a day and it was sluggish and the check engine light came on again. Back to the repair shop and they replaced the spark plugs, ignition wires and did a fuel induction service for $325.
Drove the car for another day and then the service engine light came on again and the engine was running very rough with little power. Drove the car to the dealer where I purchased it new. The dealer said the right bank of spark plugs were only hand tightened which caused the plugs to over heat and completely incinerated the tips of 3 plugs and melted 2 ignition wires. Also said the #5 cylinder has no compression and the exhaust values are damaged. They also indicated that they would have to remove the engine head to determine the exact extent of damage to the engine to determine the complete cost to repair the engine.
Questions since money is tight right now. I live in the southeastern part of New York state.
Would it make sense to repair the engine damage or just replace it with a rebuilt engine?
What would be the approximate cost to repair the engine?
What would be the approximate cost to install a rebuilt engine?
What can I expect as a reasonable settlement from the repair shop?
Thanks for any advise you can offer.

[Lightfoot]

It looks like the first shop you took it to dropped the ball, big time.
Don't know if the M-A-F sensor was actually bad in the first place, but if it was, that should have cured the problem. And installing plugs&wires, etc. was clearly a case of throwing money at the problem, instead of actual diagnostics.
Usually if the M-A-F is failing, the ECM will put the engine into 'open loop' (limp mode) so that it can still be driven. Shouldn't just quit running IMO.

Sounds like burned valves indeed, have happened. If the pistons aren't damaged, a new head may be cost effective. But I would look into the first shop paying the bill, since they apparently ****ed up.

This forum may have a higher concentration of members that know these engines really well.
http://pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/index.php

[Lightfoot]

Also, 109K is not extreme miles for the 3800. It's a well engineered engine, and should be good for a lot more use, if the short block has not been affected by this catastrophe.

With the intake being removed to pull the cylinder head, fresh gaskets should insure a fair amount of engine service life, after all the required work is done.

Maybe the service dept at your dealer can provide an affidavit that states the reason for the cylinder head damage was from the other shop's negligence. Small claims court will pay up to $1500, last I knew, but you should be entitled to all the damages being payed for.

[gtknapp]

Thanks for the advice Light. I appreciate it!

[Cammer-6]

Have the shop call the service adviser who handled this.
Make sure you have the consent of Dealership to disclose all the repairs.
Tell the repair shop you want re embursed for all expenses and the repairs needed.
Offer to give them back the MAF and get yours back.
Agree they just threw money at it.....YOURS!

[mzbk2l]

I definitely agree with Lightfoot that 109k is nothing for those engines. I think my brother's 1998 GTP with a 3800 is approaching 300,000 miles, and I sold my '92 SSEi with 255,000 on it. Neither had ever been apart further than the supercharger nose cone.

Having said that, those are also extremely common engines. Have you considered a used engine from a salvage yard? If your repair bill is going to be outrageous, you may be better off paying a few hundred dollars for a used engine. The odds are very good that the one you pick up will still have 100,000+ miles of good life left on it.

[Dr. Drivability]

There are at least 3 "P" codes related to the MAF sensor (p0101, p0102 & p0103)
You should find out which code the previous shop found when they diagnosed the vehicle and ask if they did the correct troubleshooting. There are alot of other reasons the MAF sensor will trigger a code without actually being the cause. If they just pulled the code and hung parts on the car I'd definitely say it's on them, at least to reimburse you some monies.

[gtknapp]

Thanks for the input. The repair shop is saying their work couldn't have caused the problems with the damaged valves, spark plugs and and cylinders. They couldn't remember exactly what codes were recorded when I first brought the car in but said it was recording a very lean fuel flow and not the misfiring in the cylinders. The dealer indicated to me that's what caused the latest and worse problem, the repair shop's inability to correctly install the plugs. Looks like I have a battle coming with the repair shop.

Anyone have a recommendation on where to look for a used 3800 engine? Thanks!

[Cammer-6]

what part of country are you in?

[gtknapp]

I'm in Poughkeepsie, NY, the southeastern part of New York state.

Thanks for any advice!

[gtknapp]

Sort of good news, the repair shop agreed to give me a full refund of the charges billed. Now I'm waiting for the dealer service center to give me a price on a used engine. Time rolls on.

Dealer just said it would cost $3,700 to install a used engine. Anyone know where I can get a good deal in southeastern New York state on installing a used 3800 engine?

[Cammer-6]

Might try the GP forum as they have a larger FWD following.
For that price its worth coming and getting it.
You can find a good motor on http://car-part.com/

bought one for the GTP for $200 minus SC,looked like new inside.

Heres 2 in PA,with 60,65K for $900

2000
Engine
Buick Park Avenue RDY,W321,12-99,3.8SPR CHG,AT,FWD 65,000 A D0866R $900 Al's Auto Parts, Inc. USA-PA(Trevose) E-mail 1-888-396-2199
2000
Engine
Buick Park Avenue RDY,W-321,7-99,3.8SPR CHG,AT,FWD 60,000 A D4103G $900 Al's Auto Parts, Inc. USA-PA(Trevose) E-mail

[TinInjun]

If the car was running fine before SES light came on and the engine quit running, you don't have any mechanical issues. Chances are the crank position sensor is the problem