[aronhk_md]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Just to throw this out there, Moog and TRW coat their' ball joints from the factory, but believe it's more for preventing corrosion while on the shelf. It's like ammelguard or something, an amber, tacky coating that's used on almost all taper pins, tie rods, etc., and is MIL-SPEC I believe.

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Some areas on cars could benefit from anti-seize, mainly from anticipating a dis-assembly in the future. The factory may chose not to do so for the simple reason that it costs more. One area I feel could certainly benefit from anti-seize would be lower control arm bolts, and they don't come from the factory with the thought they would ever need to be removed. How about exhaust manifold bolts?


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Hmmm....interesting....they use a coating but nowhere do they have an instruction to remove it. Of course it likely does not have any lubricant, but still.....and you are right, as I've pointed out they dont use lubricant or antiseize in MANY places they could probably because they just dont care...it would cost more money & time (we know time is money).

As for the NO's having it? I'm not quite so sure. From what I've seen even amongst mechanics its almost a 50/50 split. But that doesnt mean I'm going to use it. I'm in HWYSTR455's camp......and leaning toward not using it, but still scratching my head a bit. Lots of people stating the BJ taper is an interference fit, or supposed to be, but I have yet to find evidence of that.....I'm looking for engineering data indicating that online.

Pontirag.........you dont want lube on components that arent supposed to turn you say? Not true. There are plenty of instances where its used. Especially antiseize, as Sirrotica has mentioned. To no harm. As for not having the joint spin while taking it apart......most people just put some pressure on it with a jack, and it stops spinning.

And I agree with Sirrotica and Bret.......my inability to break those suckers loose was most likely due to my inexperience

But really, I'm happy to see everyone contributing to the discussion. It only benefits all of us, and I hope Bret isnt too upset that I was disassembling his statements to examine them closely. I do it even with myself sometimes to ensure I'm doing the right thing....or the best thing. I'll list on paper a PRO & CON column to see what I'm doing.

[screamingchief]

Yeah,I'm cool,I usually just step back for a bit if I get tired with responding to a given subject on these forums,that gives others a chance to step in and voice their POV and share their experiences.

I dont claim to have the answers to everything that's out there,so I'm always interested in hearing why folks feel the way they do about something like this,even if I completely disagree with that POV.

I always try to keep an open mind on most any topic.

I'll see if I can find you some technical data,but dont get your hopes up,it's an old and mostly outdated design to be completely honest,so any real technical papers on that topic are likely covered in dust on a shelf in some warehouse somewhere.

Many modern balljoints have gone to capture bolt style BJ's & pinch bolts and such,so no more taper and no more interference fit.

FWIW

Bret P.

[dmorg1]

While I'm not an expert on Anti Seize, Tapers or anything else for that matter here is what I can contribute to this thread.

During the manufacture and assembly of industrial machinery it is standard practice to assemble all Taper Fits clean and dry, meaning no lubricants or corrosion preventatives. This includes both friction only tapers and fastener secured tapers.


The Instructions for all of the Taper Lock Bushings we install clearly state DO NOT OIL OR GREASE BUSHING OR HUB BEFORE INSTALLATION.


While the appearance of the Taper Lock and the BJ stud is different the function for both is the same, to lock the components together in a non-permanent fashion.

Here is an interesting link,

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/a.../t-317314.html


Dave

[Schurkey]

Tapered stud in a tapered hole.

When the stud nut is torqued, the tapers are pulled together. This is the interference fit that's been talked about. In practice, the female taper is microscopically stretched around the male taper.

If you LUBRICATE the tapers, the male taper will slide farther into the female taper given the same amount of torque on the stud nut. The female taper has to stretch farther. This is the SAME principle as reducing the torque values when threaded fasteners are assembled with a lubricant on the threads and underside of bolt heads or nuts--the loss of friction affects the stretch.

How much elasticity do you suppose the female part has before it's deformed permanently; or CRACKS?

CLEAN AND DRY. It CANNOT rust together because the tapers form an air-tight seal when assembled. No water, no oxygen gets inside. There are many good uses for anti-seize; tapered studs/tapered holes is not one of them.