[Shiny]

I am very lucky - laid off in 2009 for the first time in my 30-plus year career. After 6 months of rejection for being "overqualified", I had to relocate to find a job. It is still hard because we left 3 sons, more family, and lots of friends behind. I have a good salary again and fantastic benefits, so I don't complain, but there was a loss and I am still grieving. I did get a raise after a year, but the real raise was being able to keep health insurance for my wife and youngest son.

I totally agree with Formulabruce about the cause for age discrimination. It is not age, because they want the experience. It is the health care costs that go with it. It does not take rocket science to see what group insurance rates have done to business. I have no doubt the health care costs for my family targeted me when I was layed off. I also have no doubt that hiring decisions consider impact to the health plans. I wouldn't be surprised if health insurance companies walked in every year with a chart showing cost of the plan vs percent of employees over 50. Just facts. And as my employer was big enough to fund its own health plan, I have no doubt they put an annual cost for every employee's health expenses in a spreadsheet right next to the salary so they could add them up and rank them for the layoff list.

I suspect health care is as big a factor in the economic downturn as mortgage loans, but that would be a different thread and if I started, I would be told to go lay down.

Yes, I'm lucky and I know it, because I found a good job and can take care of my family for now.

I hope all struggling to support themselves and their families find a path to recover their lost jobs.

Work is dignity.

[69 DAYTONA]

..59 years old here...self employeed for 40 years, record sales, record profits this year...really don't know of anything else I want except time to play, quitting the end of this year...

[arbys]

Originally Posted by thirtypointer

Just curious how you other wage earners are doing. My governor here (Wisconsin) thinks I have it made because I work for the government and I am in a union. If you work for a living, when was the last time you got a salary increase and how much was it percentage wise?

My last one was in Janurary 2009 and it was 2% plus we kicked in to additonal health insurance co-pays and an increase in paying for a portion of the premium.

Anyone else?


.

Well, thirtypointer, after reading all the responses what do YOU think? If you read them all you got an earfull and don't have much room for complaint. You also didn't say what your "union" job is/was.

[Don Chapman]

I saw on tv the other day that Wisconsin residents pay the 4th highest tax rate of the 50 states.

[thirtypointer]

Originally Posted by arbys

Well, thirtypointer, after reading all the responses what do YOU think? If you read them all you got an earfull and don't have much room for complaint. You also didn't say what your "union" job is/was.

I think the response to the post proves most everyone here is dealing with tough times wage/benefit wise. I appreciate the fact even more I have a job and feel like *hit when I read about people without jobs and who have taken hard hits pay/benefit wise.
No intention here to step on anyone's toes.

I like Shiny's comment about "work is dignity". I agree with Old Bird's comment about the middle class getting squeezed and Formula8's the government is up for sale. I learned that you cannot really debate with someone via a internet forum effectively. The post however can't be all bad when you get Old Man Taylor to post and get a picture of Al Bundy for free.

I hope Norwood is wrong when he said "it will never be the same" and agree with Zeek's comments about how wrong the "I'm getting screwed so why shouldn't you". I like to hear Jagtec is going back to school. Some of the comments here mirror friends, family and neighbors.

I did not like the attack on unions. I do not think unions belong everywhere but think they have their place in the private and public sector. I think lazy worthless employees should be "educated" by their co-workers. I did not like hearing about the struggles of the 50+ employabliity problems as I think they would be a bargain. I appreciate the self employed here and small business owners and shop those in my town.

More than anything I am sick of the working class getting screwed and fighting among each other while Wall Street gets rich. Like some of the posters indicated they are working harder than ever and getting paid less. Right Drake?

My full time job is policing, twenty years total this November.

That is what I think Arby.

.

[T A 70]

Originally Posted by thirtypointer

I think the response to the post proves most everyone here is dealing with tough times wage/benefit wise. I appreciate the fact even more I have a job and feel like *hit when I read about people without jobs and who have taken hard hits pay/benefit wise.
No intention here to step on anyone's toes.

I like Shiny's comment about "work is dignity". I agree with Old Bird's comment about the middle class getting squeezed and Formula8's the government is up for sale. I learned that you cannot really debate with someone via a internet forum effectively. The post however can't be all bad when you get Old Man Taylor to post and get a picture of Al Bundy for free.

I hope Norwood is wrong when he said "it will never be the same" and agree with Zeek's comments about how wrong the "I'm getting screwed so why shouldn't you". I like to hear Jagtec is going back to school. Some of the comments here mirror friends, family and neighbors.

I did not like the attack on unions. I do not think unions belong everywhere but think they have their place in the private and public sector. I think lazy worthless employees should be "educated" by their co-workers. I did not like hearing about the struggles of the 50+ employabliity problems as I think they would be a bargain. I appreciate the self employed here and small business owners and shop those in my town.

More than anything I am sick of the working class getting screwed and fighting among each other while Wall Street gets rich. Like some of the posters indicated they are working harder than ever and getting paid less. Right Drake?

My full time job is policing, twenty years total this November.

That is what I think Arby.

.

Did you say you are a cop?

[thirtypointer]

Originally Posted by T A 70

Did you say you are a cop?

Yep. "Policing" looks kinda funky I suppose.

[arbys]

Originally Posted by thirtypointer

I think the response to the post proves most everyone here is dealing with tough times wage/benefit wise. I appreciate the fact even more I have a job and feel like *hit when I read about people without jobs and who have taken hard hits pay/benefit wise.
No intention here to step on anyone's toes.

I like Shiny's comment about "work is dignity". I agree with Old Bird's comment about the middle class getting squeezed and Formula8's the government is up for sale. I learned that you cannot really debate with someone via a internet forum effectively. The post however can't be all bad when you get Old Man Taylor to post and get a picture of Al Bundy for free.

I hope Norwood is wrong when he said "it will never be the same" and agree with Zeek's comments about how wrong the "I'm getting screwed so why shouldn't you". I like to hear Jagtec is going back to school. Some of the comments here mirror friends, family and neighbors.

I did not like the attack on unions. I do not think unions belong everywhere but think they have their place in the private and public sector. I think lazy worthless employees should be "educated" by their co-workers. I did not like hearing about the struggles of the 50+ employabliity problems as I think they would be a bargain. I appreciate the self employed here and small business owners and shop those in my town.

More than anything I am sick of the working class getting screwed and fighting among each other while Wall Street gets rich. Like some of the posters indicated they are working harder than ever and getting paid less. Right Drake?

My full time job is policing, twenty years total this November.

That is what I think Arby.
.

Thank you and the military for what you do for the citizens.

I'm afraid almost everyone has a story like I do about a clogged storm drain in June. This had been going on for months then @10PM on Saturday night 7 city employees showed up with 4 or 5 trucks to fix the sewer. One worker in the hole and the rest were "observers" around the hole. They finally wound it up about 4AM Sunday. Another happening is a snow storm in Jan. with about 2 inches on the ground at 5PM. Then,after 5,the trucks are on the road after everyone is home. They could have started @ 3PM but waited until overtime.
Just heard Tues about a local teacher that is an alcholic and drinks on the job. He CAN'T be let go or fired because he has tenure.

That's why I and I'm sure others have trouble sympathizing with state employee unions. Plus our employers changed the playing field when we had to contribute many $$$$$ to our healthcare when 5-7 years ago we didn't and it was considered part of our pay package.

[boltbuster]

[QUOTE
Just heard Tues about a local teacher that is an alcholic and drinks on the job. He CAN'T be let go or fired because he has tenure.QUOTE]

I think that, if you check out the tenure law in Wisconsin, a teacher who drinks on the job, or does illegal drugs, is not protected from dismissal. If what you "heard" is true and nothing is being done, it's an administrative problem. If what you "heard" is a rumor, the tenure law was created to keep teachers from being dismissed when someone has an axe to grind.

[poncho-mike]

My best years were in 2001 and 2002. The company I worked for at the time consolidated at another location and closed down our facility.

I'm currently working for about 10% less than what I made then.

In 2009, there were no raises and I took one week per quarter off without pay.

In 2010, I got a 1.5% raise.

Each year, my contributions for my health care coverage have increased much faster than my raises. I'm losing ground.

I haven't heard what the plan is this year, but I don't expect it to be very generous.

No matter how you look at it, the working class is being squeezed, mainly due to foreign competition. Our government doesn't have the balls to deal with the Chinese currency issue, so we will continue to lose jobs to China. I felt like gagging when the Fed declared China wasn't a currency manipulator.

I love my country, but I detest the politicians we put in office.

[Bob Rutledge]

hey Thrity, thanks for service as a police officer. In my opinion one of the most underpaid positions out there. Especially when you have to consider the aholes you have to deal with daily, and also possibly getting shot at. I agree there should be unions for some, but most public positions should not have them. Police and firefighters, yes, but that is about it.

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by thirtypointer

Just curious how you other wage earners are doing. My governor here (Wisconsin) thinks I have it made because I work for the government and I am in a union.
.

SO, You are a cop? Thank you for your service, YOU DO KNOW that this bill doesn't do anything to the cops and firefighters unions as THEY are NOT included in the collective bargaining part of this bill, Don't you?
That is what they are protesting about.
BTW. With all of the cops and firemen at the capital protesting, WHO is protecting the citizens of their towns??? Even when they are off duty, If they are all the way across the state protesting instead of at home if they are NEEDED they are several hours away instead of minutes away. They should be ashamed of themselves as they don't even have a dog in this fight.

[thirtypointer]

Originally Posted by sleepy

SO, You are a cop? Thank you for your service, YOU DO KNOW that this bill doesn't do anything to the cops and firefighters unions as THEY are NOT included in the collective bargaining part of this bill, Don't you?
That is what they are protesting about.
BTW. With all of the cops and firemen at the capital protesting, WHO is protecting the citizens of their towns??? Even when they are off duty, If they are all the way across the state protesting instead of at home if they are NEEDED they are several hours away instead of minutes away. They should be ashamed of themselves as they don't even have a dog in this fight.

Thanks and thank you for being an employer. I know cops and fire fighters are exempt for now. You are right about cops and fire fighters at the capitol protesting are off duty. All are Wisconsin tax payers and have a dog in this fight. I doubt any would put their town in jeopardy by absence. The budget repair bill and proposed budget ain't just about public employees or even just about Wisconsin. Ashamed? Don't you think it will affect you? Your employees? Kids in the public schools, etc. That phone call where Walker thought he was talking to the billionaire has a lot of people upset. Government for sale.. That is probally off topic though.

[sleepy]

UM, Hudson, New Richmond, Somerset, Hell ALL of the schools in this area were shut down last week because most of the teacher called in "sick" and were in Madison "coughing and wheezing" on the capital steps. So yes, it did affect me, my kids, my employees, their kids, the district bus drivers(paid by the hour), the companies who supply food to the schools, The gas stations the buses fuel at, ON AND ON.
And Government has always been for sale, THAT IS what political contributions are.

[limejudge69]

Hey arby, How many storm drains, water mains, sewer mains, water services, sewer services, or pump stations have you repaired? The old analogy of "1 guy working and 5 standing around watching" is total BS. When you dig a hole, you only dig it big enough to be safe and allow enough room to make the repair. Otherwise the work zone is bigger than it has to be, and that means more cleanup/repair/asphalt/cement and more man hours doing the cleanup. Especially if it's in the middle of the road. In most cases it's one guy in the hole, or maybe 2 at the most. They do what they can until they get tired, or until a gung-ho type wants to jump in. You have equipment operators, truck drivers, flaggers, supervisors, all around a work area. Most utilities workers want to be involved so they know what the problem is that got them out of bed, or kept them working late. One of the reasons for night/evening work is not to milk overtime, but because of less traffic, or working in a commercial area with fewer customers affected by shutting off water. A lot of problems are caused by antique utilities that we continually patch. Towns and cities don't want to spend the money to repair it, because it's out of sight. They would rather spend the money elsewhere. And NO we are not union.

[arbys]

[QUOTE=limejudge69;4254604]Hey arby, How many storm drains, water mains, sewer mains, water services, sewer services, or pump stations have you repaired? The old analogy of "1 guy working and 5 standing around watching" is total BS. When you dig a hole, you only dig it big enough to be safe and allow enough room to make the repair. Otherwise the work zone is bigger than it has to be, and that means more cleanup/repair/asphalt/cement and more man hours doing the cleanup. Especially if it's in the middle of the road. In most cases it's one guy in the hole, or maybe 2 at the most. They do what they can until they get tired, or until a gung-ho type wants to jump in. You have equipment operators, truck drivers, flaggers, supervisors, all around a work area. Most utilities workers want to be involved so they know what the problem is that got them out of bed, or kept them working late. One of the reasons for night/evening work is not to milk overtime, but because of less traffic, or working in a commercial area with fewer customers affected by shutting off water. A lot of problems are caused by antique utilities that we continually patch. Towns and cities don't want to spend the money to repair it, because it's out of sight. They would rather spend the money elsewhere. And NO we are not union.[/QUOTE

I worked for the electric utilty business for 38 years overseeing construction. I think that safety around energized lines is paramount.

[limejudge69]

I worked for the electric utilty business for 38 years overseeing construction. I think that safety around energized lines is paramount.[/QUOTE]

Not trying to pick a fight, but did it make you feel good when people said "Oh there's one guy in the bucket and 5 on the ground watching? You know as well as anyone that everyone in a work zone is there for a reason. I'm sure you ran into some water/sewer guys in your day. They do the crappy (literally) work that nobody likes to do. It's a muddy, dirty thankless job.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by limejudge69

Hey arby, How many storm drains, water mains, sewer mains, water services, sewer services, or pump stations have you repaired? The old analogy of "1 guy working and 5 standing around watching" is total BS. When you dig a hole, you only dig it big enough to be safe and allow enough room to make the repair. Otherwise the work zone is bigger than it has to be, and that means more cleanup/repair/asphalt/cement and more man hours doing the cleanup. Especially if it's in the middle of the road. In most cases it's one guy in the hole, or maybe 2 at the most. They do what they can until they get tired, or until a gung-ho type wants to jump in. You have equipment operators, truck drivers, flaggers, supervisors, all around a work area. Most utilities workers want to be involved so they know what the problem is that got them out of bed, or kept them working late. One of the reasons for night/evening work is not to milk overtime, but because of less traffic, or working in a commercial area with fewer customers affected by shutting off water. A lot of problems are caused by antique utilities that we continually patch. Towns and cities don't want to spend the money to repair it, because it's out of sight. They would rather spend the money elsewhere. And NO we are not union.

I've seen it takes 7 Indiana State DOT workers to cut grass along the highways. 2 running tractors, 5 riding in trucks. But when a private contractor does the same job on the same highway, they use 3 people. 2 running those same tractors, and one in a truck who uses the weedwacker.

why the difference?

[limejudge69]

Originally Posted by Simple Man

I've seen it takes 7 Indiana State DOT workers to cut grass along the highways. 2 running tractors, 5 riding in trucks. But when a private contractor does the same job on the same highway, they use 3 people. 2 running those same tractors, and one in a truck who uses the weedwacker.

why the difference?

Don't know about the DOT. At my job, a town utilities dept, we don't cut grass along highways. We do have a 2 man crew to maintain our facilities, right-of-ways, water tanks, and easements.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Simple Man

I've seen it takes 7 Indiana State DOT workers to cut grass along the highways. 2 running tractors, 5 riding in trucks. But when a private contractor does the same job on the same highway, they use 3 people. 2 running those same tractors, and one in a truck who uses the weedwacker.

why the difference?

A wonderful person, I used to work for, worked for the WPA, as a young man. He said it took 8 guys to mow someones yard, 2 a com'in, 2 a go'in, 2 a sh**'in, 2 a mow'n....a government entity...way back...

not knocking ANY body...