[455Grandville]

I'm looking to possibly invest in a truck tank cleaning service off I-44 ; it's a tank cleaning service to tanker trucks that need to be cleansed for food additives kinda like this place ; (http://southerntankservices.net/)
Anyone familiar with these stations and the costs ? I'm told many truckers who need this often have to go off the beaten path to get this needed service done -

[stimpy]

very expensive to set up and you have to have certifications , EPA , NSF, state board of health ect ... and when you do it you have to stay on top of things the hardest is to keep employees as its hot and wet work and someone always falls from the top of the trailers and gets hurt ( which is always $$$ and then OHSA visits ) , and by the time your done with expenses thers hardly left for them to make ends ( in chicago they get paid about $12 a hour for hazmat $8for Food grade ) . and one screw up can cost your business . you have to know your stuff . and you also need a very big boiler to keep the water hot and for the dryers , water treatment systems ( clean water to wash and efulants) as alot of municipalities cannot handle the excess water flow or soaps( 30-35K gallons aday average of waste water ) .a 3 phase hook up for the pumps to operate the spinners and transfer systems , and a very clean building set up to keep from freezing in the winter , and some driver services ( bathroom , shower ) as this is what attracts them . and also you have to be able to operate on a 30 day payback period as alot of companies don't pay fror 30 days and if your terms are expensive they will send there drivers out of route ( I have been sent 200 miles out of route to a company that would do business on my companies terms . ) and have to be able to take payment from compdata and others too . drivers don't carry large amounts for cash and don't pay for these services out of pocket . a large lot as you will find out some companies will do drops at your yard and use your yard as a miniterminal ( part of keeping customers )
the local tankwash I use here in town charges about $175 to do a simple washout but if its Kosher ( you must have a rabi come bless the facility and keep current ) or a Coke wash ( trailer must be washed with water of a high temp ( 180+ ) for 4 minutes or more , padded , (people with confined containment licenses ) go inside and wipe the interior out , itt costs alot extra and then you have to watch for the scum who try to get a washout that is chemicals but they say are food grade ( which is not handled at food grade facilities as its hazmat ) like I said if your not experianced in it get some real schooling on it before attempting to do it , as liability for a accidental poisoning from a miswash will be on your shoulders and the lawyers will go after you civally after the company closes . you can try to hook up with a established tankwash company as a partner as some trucking companies I know are looking for investors in this .

[455Grandville]

Thanks for the info; I was told you could start up for $40k in equipment; I think I was told wrong. Seems to me if you have the cash it could a nice moneymaker -

[68lemansman]

I used to know a guy that owned a tank wash here in delaware. It was a pretty busy place and my one of my good friends worked there and said that the temperature in the tanks get almost 200 degrees to just clean them. Also he dealt with alot of chemicals that were very harmful such as some type of acid. He also washed trucks for a truck wash when not doing tanks. So it was pretty busy and it also was in the middle of the truck stop too.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Coworker lost his brother to tank cleaning (overcome by fumes while saving a tank worker who was overcome by fumes while saving a tank worker) 3 died. Story was the fumes overtook a man's strength ability in SECONDS.

That was ~1995.

[JLHarper]

We were just talking about this service, and who regulates it.

A partners friend owns a large trucking co and uses these services where he has to.

Example: hauled some lquid asphalt to CA and some crushed pepper (for hot sauce) back East for mfg.

I recall they paid $800 to have the tank cleaned.

Building up contacts might be hard at first.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

Example: hauled some lquid asphalt to CA and some crushed pepper (for hot sauce) back East for mfg.

I didn't know they were allowed to carry food and non-food items in the same vehicle. You'd really have to clean out the tank well in between loads.

[JLHarper]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I didn't know they were allowed to carry food and non-food items in the same vehicle. You'd really have to clean out the tank well in between loads.

Thats what I thought too, but what he was told.

I guess if they certify them, they are good to go(?)

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I didn't know they were allowed to carry food and non-food items in the same vehicle. You'd really have to clean out the tank well in between loads.

Funny you should mention that; off topic, but reminds me of a story my Dad liked to tell:

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Back in the mid/late 70's he was working at Chevrolet Flint Manufacturing. In addition to the sheet metal components that they made they were also the supplier for a fiberglass (maybe "composite" would be a better word) front header panel for passenger cars. This would be the piece in front of the hood that supports the headlamps, grille, and closes out the front of the fenders.

At seemingly random intervals they would get complaints back from the assembly plants of bubbles, pits and lack of paint adhesion. Usually, as quickly as the problem surfaced, it would go away again on its own without them having a chance to diagnose what the root cause was.

On one occasion the were able to secure a part that manifested the problem and get it shipped to their chemistry lab for analysis. When the report came back there were high levels of "sucrose" in the part.

Dad called the lab technician on the phone. "Sucrose?" he said. "You mean, like - sugar?".

"Yes" the tech replied. "For the purposes of this discussion, they are essentially the same thing."

Dad put that information in the back corners of his mind and they continued to investigate.



After a long period of study, they did finally figure out what the issue was.

They were able to track the occurrence of the incidents back to one specific independent trucker. Apparently what was happening was this: The trucker was from the Atlanta area, which is where the resin for this composite part was manufactured. He would take a truckload of the resin up to Flint and drop it off (as per the plan). Then - rather than running home empty - he would head up to Saginaw, where he would take on a full load of Pioneer sugar and make a run home with that, dropping the sugar at the Coca-Cola bottling facility in Atlanta. He had quite a system going since he could make money on the return trip instead of deadheading home. That's where the sugar in the part was coming from - the contaminated resin.

I have no idea what made them think to cross reference the incidents with the individual shipments but once they confronted this particular trucker (and told him to stop) the problem went away for good.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I didn't know they were allowed to carry food and non-food items in the same vehicle. You'd really have to clean out the tank well in between loads.

I don't believe you can haul foodgrade in anything but another food grade tank. Would YOu want to eat something that was hauled in a tank that hauled old motor oil, or similar? You would hope the tank was washed properly. Even then I think there would be traces of the original product.

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I didn't know they were allowed to carry food and non-food items in the same vehicle. You'd really have to clean out the tank well in between loads.

your not its illegal to haul food grade items cannot be carried in the same trailer as any chemicals ( ever since the orange juice incident back in the 90's ) , also a asphalt trailer is a specialized trailer , as its uses a carbon steel bore and is not food coded as it don't see any pressure and see's extreme tempatures ( 350-600 degrees ) if you where to put it into a Dot 400 series trailer ( stainless bore which is needed for any food grade material ) it would collapse from the heat, the barrel is the frame of the trailer, milk trailers are the only frame trailer other than aluminum barrels built .been hauling tanks for 25 years .

if you want to see a tankerman laugh and a washrack guy cry , have them do a coke wash on a trailer then close the lids and valves afterwords and set it in the lot , in about 20 minurtes you will hear a large beercan crushing sound , thats the trailer sucking itself in , and ussually when thy do this the only thinfg we can reuse is the lid , valves and tires . and the back wheel set is ussually a couple of feet off the ground as its sits on its belly . ( I had this happen to 2 brand new trailers back in 1995 and we were p.o.'d as they never seen a load as they just came from there VIK tests )

[JLHarper]

My example of liquid asphalt may have been wrong (but thats what I heard) and it DOES look like certain non food groups can be hauled in non dairy liquid food tankers.

Regulations:

http://setonresourcecenter.com/trans...s/transafe.pdf

[stimpy]

OBTW , I talked to my freinds at the wash , the facility cost 2.5 mil to set up , and the epa regs take a while to file and ok

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Coworker lost his brother to tank cleaning (overcome by fumes while saving a tank worker who was overcome by fumes while saving a tank worker) 3 died. Story was the fumes overtook a man's strength ability in SECONDS.

That was ~1995.

happens more often than people know , I had a good freind at one of the washes die from fumes when a trailer was nitrogen padded and wasn't labeled , he stuck his head in to see what it was and passed out and fell in they found him in the morning . co workers never thought about looking for him they ethought he was busy doing work .

[stimpy]

we don't go by association rules we go buy CFR49 federal regulations , and fda regulations , if you read the first sectio at the very end what does it say ?

2. in step VII #5 a food grade label must be applied ( once this is applied no chemicals cannot be put into such tank ie no switch hitting allowed its dedicated ), and to make a chemical trailer dedicated is not something you can do cheaply or overnight , all the welds must be ground down and polished flush to the interior ( to facilitated proper cleaning ) and this takes about 2 weeks to do , and once you do that you have to recertify the tank on the pressure rating( hydro test ) and ultrasound all the welds . then you have to change out the valving as it cannot use the hydraulic internal valves we use as it will pose a contamination problem ( and once you remove the interior valves its no longer compliant for chemical service ) , then you have to change the exterior hose connections as almost all food grade uses a screw connector not quick couplers , modify the dome lid to remove the lip on the inside of the tank compartment . a lot more complicated than what it seems , only one company I know does not do this and thats ADM as they use dedicated equipment and top load there trucks and also there equipment was all purchased brand new , and they do not haul chemicals at all as they do not want the insurance liability .thats what I was hired to do , bring in the acids and caustics used for production .

[JLHarper]

21 CFR is Food and Drug.

Those "rules" I posted are generally derived from the CFRs.