[Donovan]

Originally Posted by SRR

It is a big block! Just look at this picture!

see! easy....

[Donovan]

Originally Posted by i82much

So, I guess a tall deck BBC is a big block big block chevy, a standard deck BBC is a small block big block chevy? Uh ... no. "big block" and "small block" are used to distinguish block sizes from the same engine family that vary across a plurality of external dimensions. Tall deck, short deck, etc. are the proper terms for block sizes that vary externally only by deck height. Journal size isn't an external dimension and has no relevance for either terminology.

ahhh, a devil's advocate I see.

The first example is silly.... Let's keep it to mass production. I already explained BBP and SBP.

SBP = 256\301
BBP = all other Pontiac blocks

Take all the details in consideration, the journal size, rod length and deck height. So you tell me. How is a Pontiac NOT a big block?

[rusty67]

My buddy and i stop at a gas station because his idiot light came on. I stayed in the car while he got out and checked the oil. He then went in and bought a quart of oil and added it to the car. rechecked the dipstick and it was still dry. Goes back in and buys 2 more quarts of oil and adds them. Still not registering. back into the store he goes. Comes back out with 2 more quarts. meanwhile Im sitting in the car not able to see whats going on under the hood. But after seeing him buy 5 quarts of oil I got suspiscious. i get out and watch him pull the powersteering dipstick and say this thing sure takes alot of oil.

[Tony69]

Originally Posted by Donovan

How is a Pontiac NOT a big block?

Exactly!! It's ALWAYS a big block and therefore no need to say it :P The 301 is just a short deck block.
Just cause youre short, dont mean youre a kid :P

[Deadhead]

We had a salesman that called on us. He had an '83 Mercury Marquis in '85. One day he parked it right out front. We could hear the lifters making noise. Guy that worked for us said, "Donald, how many miles you got on that thing?" He beamed and said, "199,000!". John says, "When was the last time you changed the oil in that thing?" Donald got all confused looking and said, "What do you mean?" We said you know changed the oil and filter. His response was, "What do you mean, I just put more in when it gets low."

We totally cracked up on that one. You could tell the guy just had no idea at all that was something you needed to do.

That might not be the dumbest, but is is real close and makes you real careful if you buy a used vehicle.

I was at a mechanic friend's shop last year this time and he had a beat up old Ranger or similar that he had there w/ MA tags on it. I asked him about it. He said that someone had brought it in after driving it 1500 miles from MA b/c it was making clacking noise the whole way. Drove it all the way here with around 1 1/2 qts. of oil in it. They thought that is where the level was supposed to be on the stick.

I love that stuff b/c it shows what an engine will actually tolerate and gives perspective to arguments about oil types, longevity etc.

[SRR]

Got a friend who rebuilt his engine and had it in his garage for like three years. Not knowing just how ignorant he really is I helped him put it in his truck after running it on my stand to "break in" the cam. It ran well and had good oil pressure. Well, the cam went bad two weeks later and he was trying to say it was my fault blah blah blah. Turns out he had been rotating the engine over while it sat in his garage for three years with NO oil in it or cam lube on the cam. Even the lobe for the fuel pump was wasted. Hes' also one of those guys who run straight 30W all the time and argued with me that he didn't need to run an additive or a high ZDDP content oil because his "friends" told him it was unnecessary. Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Donovan

The first example is silly.... Let's keep it to mass production.

A 396 tall deck truck BBC isn't enough production for you?

Anyway, you seem well-spoken, so I am sure you realize that terms take their meaning from their usage just as much as they take their usage from their meaning. If you want to call a Pontiac a big block, it's not hurting my feelings any, I just think that language is inconsistent with how the term "big block" is conventionally used in the "car guy" dialect.

Originally Posted by Donovan

Take all the details in consideration, the journal size, rod length and deck height. So you tell me. How is a Pontiac NOT a big block?

I don't really get what journal size or rod length have to do with it. A rod isn't even part of the block, and an engine with bigger journals is hardly "bigger" than an engine with smaller journals.

[Overkillphil]

Years ago, a guy started coming around to our hangout with a hopped up Pinto 4 cylinder. He would really wind this thing out on the street before banging the next gear and his big claim to fame was that he would shift it at 9 grand.

One night, a guy from our group walked by the Pinto and noticed the 8 grand tach.

[wytnyt]

this is all BS
now you guys know you got some good stories that actually happened to you ,,,let hear those so ill start
3 days after being in germany i was in the motorpool and a guy sent me to the stock room to get some "liquid track tensioner" and to hurry as we had to go recover a tank out in the training field and we were in a rush to go
i run to the stock room all out of breath and blurted out i need some "liquid track tensioner"..
he looked at me without saying anything so i repeated myself and told him i need it right now
needless to say that stayed with me a long time
and now one for our cars
when i first met my wife,,,she bought a new 76 amc hornet and since it was under warranty i thought nothing of it but she drove 60k on the same oil and filter ,,,till it locked up
and yes i had to rebuild it

[Blackcat]

Back when I was still running my little Auto repair shop some Hispanic guy came up and asked me to check out his 79 Firebird. He claimed they had just rebuilt the engine and they could not get it started. I went to his place and in the garage was a freshly painted Firebird with what looked like a brand new engine installed. I asked him if it was popping or making any noise when they turned it over. He said no. After checking a bit closer I noticed that there was no dipstick in the block. At that point he handed me a box of parts that his buddy gave him. "Do you know what these are for?" He asked. He was shocked when I started to swear out loud infront of him. @#$%!@#%@% ect...
Then I told him that if he wanted his car to run I would have to pull the engine and go through it again. He asked why?

The box contained.
Oil pump
Timing chain and concentric.
dipstick tubes and windage tray.
Lots of the internal small bolts needed.

Needless to say He was also pissed. But when I finished redoing his engine he was very happy with the power and performance it had. Oh and it fired right up when I finished building it.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by i82much

A 396 tall deck truck BBC isn't enough production for you?

Anyway, you seem well-spoken, so I am sure you realize that terms take their meaning from their usage just as much as they take their usage from their meaning. If you want to call a Pontiac a big block, it's not hurting my feelings any, I just think that language is inconsistent with how the term "big block" is conventionally used in the "car guy" dialect.



I don't really get what journal size or rod length have to do with it. A rod isn't even part of the block, and an engine with bigger journals is hardly "bigger" than an engine with smaller journals.

366

& 427 also -

[i82much]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

366

& 427 also -

Nice catch!

[fiedlerh]

Back in 1978 or so I sold a guy a used hydraulic cam and lifters. He asked me to put it in for him. It was a little hotter than stock and his 64 GTO ran pretty well with it. When he dropped it off he was bragging about shifting at 8,000 rpm all the time.
I noticed his aftermarket tach was set to 6 cylinders. I never told him because I figured if I reset it he would just blow up his engine.

I've posted it before, but if you light off a gas tank containing fuel residue, it will blow up. Yes, beer was involved.

If you remove the last bolt on a flywheel, don't be laying underneath it unless you want the impression of ring gear teeth on your forehead. (wasn't me)

When I was training at a repair shop the top mechanic was showing off how fast he could change spark plugs using an air ratchet. You can guess what happened. Then he decided to start the engine. That Ford made evil sounds as it tried to spit out the pieces of porceain.

Dumb quality control: A Ford service manager was on the phone with the factory about an unusual car that just got delivered. Everything under the hood was for an A/C car, but the dash was for a non-A/C car.

I used to get "Grand Ams came with a 350, right?" all the time.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Donovan

SBP = 256\301
BBP = all other Pontiac blocks

Take all the details in consideration, the journal size, rod length and deck height. So you tell me. How is a Pontiac NOT a big block?

You're ignoring the fact that Pontiac didn't alter it's basic V8 configuration (with the exception of the insanely rare 303) from inception to demise?? The short decks were an anomaly in the program.

A 326 ain't a big block.

[PonchoV8]

There was this one guy that put antifreeze in his oil...on purpose.

[Donovan]

Originally Posted by Tony69

Exactly!! It's ALWAYS a big block and therefore no need to say it :P The 301 is just a short deck block.
Just cause youre short, dont mean youre a kid :P

Hahaha, I like that.

Originally Posted by i82much

A 396 tall deck truck BBC isn't enough production for you?

Anyway, you seem well-spoken, so I am sure you realize that terms take their meaning from their usage just as much as they take their usage from their meaning. If you want to call a Pontiac a big block, it's not hurting my feelings any, I just think that language is inconsistent with how the term "big block" is conventionally used in the "car guy" dialect.

I don't really get what journal size or rod length have to do with it. A rod isn't even part of the block, and an engine with bigger journals is hardly "bigger" than an engine with smaller journals.

Thanks! Sure, I get your meaning. But I don't see why you would not call a Pontiac a big block. It's big compared to most other V8s. A lot bigger. And bigger than the 301 which they made a couple million of. Are you also saying big block is strictly a BBC term? not sure.

It just sounds like the camp of people that this gets under their skin simply don't like it because it doesn't 'sound right.' Not really based on anything in the actual facts and figures. I look at it and it's a BIG block, nothing small about it. It weighs a lot more and takes up a lot more space then anything called small block. Dimensionally it is big like other engines called big blocks.

I mean to say everything is bigger in this engine, it's not just deck height. It is not just a tall deck version of a small block engine.

Originally Posted by 242177P

You're ignoring the fact that Pontiac didn't alter it's basic V8 configuration (with the exception of the insanely rare 303) from inception to demise?? The short decks were an anomaly in the program.

A 326 ain't a big block.

You cannot ignore the 301 and 265 as your heart desires or dismiss it as an anomaly just so it fits your argument. I can buy parts off the shelf at Autozone . Even non-car people have heard of a 301. I can find them in junkyards in every city. They were used across the board in all GM passenger cars brands of the era. It's not like it was experimental and never made it to production. Or was only available over the counter.

Other makes aren't hung up on this. The only Buick small block is the 350. The Olds were the 330/350/403! They are short deck engines based on the taller deck design that came first. They don't call their 455's 'tall deck' engines.

326? Smaller displacement doesn't mean small block. That's why I brought up the BBC truck engines 366/396/427.... Displacement doesn't figure at all really.

Are you saying the 301 didn't have enough tenure to have any legitimacy? It needed to last 24 years first?

It's starting to feel like this is the Pontiac-secret-handshake....

[fiedlerh]

This may not be complete or 100% correct:

Mfr Spacing Deck
Ford 3.937 8.900
Olds 4.016 8.100
Olds 4.016 8.840
Cadillac 4.020 8.100
Ford 4.020 8.189
Cadillac 4.020 8.840
Mopar 4.090 9.090
Buick 4.240 8.957
Buick 4.240 9.543
Ford 4.380 8.206
Ford 4.380 9.206
Ford 4.380 9.503
Ford 4.380 10.297
Chevy 4.400 9.025
Chevy 4.400 9.240
Mopar 4.461 9.252
Mopar 4.461 9.599
Pontiac 4.620 9.143
Pontiac 4.620 9.2437
Pontiac 4.620 10.2437
Olds 4.625 9.33
Olds 4.625 10.625
Ford 4.630 10.170
AMC 4.750 9.206
Buick 4.750 10.546
Buick 4.750 10.570
Mopar 4.800 9.980
Mopar 4.800 10.725
Mopar 4.800 10.870
Chevy 4.840 9.030
Ford 4.900 10.320
Packard 5.000 10.60325
Cadillac 5.000 10.814

[Sirrotica]

Not a BB or a SB, it's a Stratostreak.........................

[lust4speed]

Sorry, don't buy the argument about being a big block based on size alone. Are you going to call a Cummins or Detroit Diesel a big block just because they are the size of Prius? Should I have been calling my 400 in the 67 GTO a big block because years later a 301 came out?

[facn8me]

Worked at a full service station for many years. One day a 68-70 dodge van full of (and I'm not making this up) Body builder mexicans. Short and stocky. Thick boys Obviously weight lifters. WHat did they need? For me to break all the lug nuts loose on the van and re tighten them. I laughed and said I'm pretty sure if you can't do it I can't. He said.. NO you no understand. We are TOO strong. We break them. We walk around to the drivers side and sure enough two studs broke on both wheels.. It took them a second to comprehend the left-hand thread right hand thread concept.