[Nikwho]

Well, this may be another of my stupid questions that obviously will not work, but I will ask any way. I have a friend with a rock crusher 4 speed tranny out of a chevy car. It does not have a removable bell housing and it has the fins cast into it. I was wondering if that tranny will bolt up to my 400c.i. Pontiac engine? Or are the chevy trannys not interchangeable with Pontiac? This is my first Pontiac project so thank you and sorry if this is a stupid question!
NIK

[Old Man Taylor]

I don't understand your description. The 4 speeds do not have the bell housing built into the trans. The Chevy 4 speeds will fit a Pontiac engine. I have a rock crusher behind my 428.

[The Boss]

Are you positive it's a Muncie M-22? Doesn't sound like any I've seen.

[Nikwho]

OK, I gave an inaccurate description. Sorry guys! It had been a while since I looked at it. I remembered it differently. I went over to my buddies house and looked at it today. It does have a removeable bell housing. The aluminum bell housing has fins cast into it. I wrote all of the numbers down off of the tranny. On the rear part of the tranny there was a number 6261894 (might have been 6261884) followed by GM1. Another part of the tranny had the number 338935. Will these tell what it is? Will the bell housing thats on it work with my Pontiac engine? Thanks for the help, guys!
NIK

[Old Man Taylor]

The bell housing will not work, but the trans will. I don't have a list of trans numbers, so I can't help you there.

[Nikwho]

Here are some pictures. Worth much more than my lousy descriptions!

[Old Man Taylor]

From a quick Internet search I just did, the trans looks like it is a Saginaw. It is not close to the strength of the standard Muncie, let alone a rock crusher. I would stay away from it.

[Bruce Meyer]

I dont think thats a Muncie. Is the case cast iron or aluminum?

[Nikwho]

Thanks Old Man Taylor! Any thoughts on a good place to get a bellhousing? Also, I can probably get a good deal on the tranny, but, how much money will it take to get a flywheel, clutch, bell housing etc to run this thing in my car? Am I heading down a road I dont want to be? I have a TH-400, complete with a converter, flex plate, drive line, auto console and a dual gate shifter. I would REALLY like my car to have a manual tranny though. I am looking to sell all of the auto parts and make a move to a manual. What else is involved that I am not thinking about? What about a clutch pedal? What do I have to change out inside my car? I want to really figure out how much this is going to cost and make the best decision! Thanks for any help guys!
NIK

[Nikwho]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

I dont think thats a Muncie. Is the case cast iron or aluminum?

I was told that it MAY be a "rock crusher" Looks to me that the bell housing is alum. and the case is iron. It wasn't terribly heavy though. I was able to pick it up with ease to rotate it for a picture so I may be mistaken.
NIK

[Nikwho]

I googled the numbers too and found a bunch of saginaw tranny's popping up. If they aren't strong, I will stay away from it! My car is going to have a pretty stout engine and I will drive the snot out of it, so I def. dont want a weak transmission. Thanks for the help, guys! Another bad purchase adverted

[Region Warrior]

The guys either a crook or doesnt know.
Not a Muncie.
They all have A-cases and tail hsg's. 2 Levers on side cover. 1 on T-hsg.
Looks like a Saginaw. I-case and all 3 levers on cover.

[Nikwho]

Thanks a bunch guys! So, if I am looking for a manual tranny for my '67 Tempest, what do I want to look for? are there any pontiac cars that I can pull a complete 5 speed out of? I am having a pretty healthy 400 built and want to be able to drive it pretty hard from time to time. Should I just look for a 4 speed out of a comparable car?

Also, what parts do i need to get my car ready for a manual? I will need a new driveline, manual tranny console and what about a clutch pedal? What parts do I need to make the swap? Thanks, NIK

[Bruce Meyer]

If your car came with an automatic, do yourself a favor and stick with an auto. The conversion to manual trans is a real chore especially for the 64-67 cars. Im pretty sure the frame tab that holds the z-bar in place has to be welded to the frame on those cars.
I did a 69 many years ago and regretted it. Ended up putting an auto back in a few years later.

[kookykrispy]

don't bother with that trans. I grenaded a saginaw behind a mild 400 in my old tempest. They are not strong. Save your bucks and find a deal on a muncie or a super T-10. The 4 speed conversion will require the 4-speed brake/clutch pedals, the linkage from the clutch to the z bar, the z bar assembly.. and yeah, if your frame doesn't have the tab for that z-bar already, it will need to be welded on... which will probably require removal of the driver's side fender. Go look and see if its there on your car.. it should be down below the brake master cylinder on the frame, looks like two little fingers sticking up.

This conversion is doable, but it will not be exactly cheap... a good muncie or t10 will cost you about 400-800, then you'll need to find all the associated parts for the swap. A 5 speed will be considerably more money... richmond/doug nash or a TKO

[ho428]

Before jumping into this learn to identify tranny's on sight. Learn the numbers and codes.
Pop a few side covers off and learn what to look for. You can easily spend $500 on a "good deal" Muncie or other only to find out it needs another $800+ in repairs. Not to mention the bellhousing, clutch, flywheel, linkage, shifter, etc...

Knowledge is your friend when looking for a used manual trans. If in doubt pay the extra cash up front and buy a rebuilt one from a reputable supplier.

[A.W.Dille]

It is a Saginaw. Best way to judge them in by the amount of rings on the input shaft. I've been running (and racing) with them since the early 90's in my 71 GTO, just have learned over the years on what to look for. One ring on the input is a weak thin geared version most used in Vega's with a 2.56 first gear. Two rings on the input has thicker gears and 3.11 first gear (what I've been using in my GTO for around six years now). Three rings on the input has a 3.50 first gear ratio and thick gears also, I have one of these set back as a spare. No rings on the input has a 2.88 first gear ratio and thick gears also. Twenty years experience has taught me alot about these transmissions. No not the strongest but have oullasted any Muncie I ever ran in the GTO and when I running quarter mile tracks in Ohio knocked my times from 14.40's (with Muncies and 3.23 rearend gears) to 13.80's and even runs into the 13.70's without ever changing the tune on the engine.