[68GTOSCA]

Gentlemen:

I am planning to add a EFI system and then add boost. However, after some research I have discovered that the EFI systems available are all big money. Have I missed something, it just seem crazy to pay this type of money. Is their a work around, are their commerical available systems that can be salvaged. I would I some advise.

Thank you

[Ollie]

MegaSquirt, DIY, tunable with a laptop computer, Great support on the forum board.
offers sequential ignition, fueling, coil on plug distributor-less ignition them possibility's are end less.

Scroll down about half way on the left side to the forums link.
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

[bankbook]

Keep in mind that your fuel supply must also be changed for pressure and volume requirements.

[Ollie]

Got that covered too.
4th gen Fuel Pump Module.

[bryansMtngto]

going blown with a Ron's mech Injection set up. Next season. When i started this project 5 years ago. No one EFI options yet. so worked with Ron's and BOP to get the intake set up for 16 injs. and Boost. heres a few pcis of the base set up. working on getting the supercharger mounting system at the moment. should have it soon. heres a few pics

[D. Miles]

Originally Posted by 68GTOSCA

Gentlemen:

I am planning to add a EFI system and then add boost. However, after some research I have discovered that the EFI systems available are all big money. Have I missed something, it just seem crazy to pay this type of money. Is their a work around, are their commerical available systems that can be salvaged. I would I some advise.

Thank you

I too am going FI. When I first started looking at EFI kits I thought wow! $4000 was the normal cost so I started looking at the "race ECU's" like F.A.S.T. XFI, BigStuff3 and Accel DFI, then I came across Holley's ECU's. XFI and BS3 are big $$$ and aimed more to the "professional" EFI set up as they do tons of functions I think they even tie your shoes for ya but Accels DFI Thruster and Holley's HP EFI will do plenty and both come come available with wide-band O2 sensors for boosted apps. I looked at and researched both systems spending many late nights on TheTurboForums.com and Google, I even downloaded and installed the software for both systems to run samples and see how the functionality was. What it came down to for me was the Accel DFI is a great system and has boost control for a turbo set up but it was $100 more than Holley's HP EFI but didn't come with the coolant temp. sensor, Air intake sensor or MAP sensor, that was and extra $130, while Holley HP EFI comes with all the sensors but it only comes with a standard 1 bar MAP sensor and since I will be running 15-20 psi of boost I will have to purchase a 3 bar MAP sensor for around $70 anyway so with the MAP sensor offset the Accel DFI will cost about $160 more. Both of these systems come complete with main wiring harness, injector harness and wide-band O2 sensor, the XFI and BS3 cost $400+ more and do not come with harnesses or sensors which can be another $500. I also spent countless hours on Ebay and cross referancing what I could find with big name/$$$ parts. When it comes to throttle bodies I would read so much about guys fussing over the cost of them since the F.A.S.T. 4 bbl style deals are $500 and up same with Wilson Manifold stuff, this all runs the cost of EFI through the roof. Since my turbo build is, well lets just say it's not Pontiac (for cost reasons of an aftermarket block) I found an EFI off-shore intake for $150 - EFI fuel rails for that intake for $50 - I was going to get a kit that came with that manifold, fuel rails and a 1000 CFM 4150 style throttle body for $450 (they have the same deal for Pontiac in the same price range) but through hours of digging around the internet and since I'm going boosted, if I got that TB set up I would have had to also purchase a $200 hat so decided on a 92 MM LS style single bore TB for $150 and a 90 degree fabricated sheet metal plenum elbow from 6061.com (super nice piece) for $200 - I got a 1000 lb/hr EFI fuel pump and regulator for $250 (same pump Aeromotive sells for $499). The huge variable here is fuel injectors, if you're going 400 HP N/A, a $100 set of 24 lb will do fine while 1500 boosted HP will call for 120/160 lb injectors which will get ya for around $500 - the Holley HP EFI ECU cost me $1450 complete so:

Holley ECU - $1450
Manifold - $150
Fuel Rails - $50
Pump/Regulator - $250
Fabbed Elbow - $200
92 mm TB - $150
*Injectors (N/A) - $100
*Total (N/A) = $2350
^Injectors (boosted) - $500
^3 bar MAP sensor (boosted) - $70
^Total (boosted) = $2820

Another reason I chose the Holley HP EFI (and looked at he Accel DFI) is for the self learn capabilities, you can down load a "generic" program to the ECU to get the car running then let it self learn which many have had great success with just those settings alone but then you can go in and tweak timing and fuel curves to get a bit more out of it. Even though the initial price hit sounds a bit high, you gotta take into consideration what a blow-through carb ordeal will cost ya:

Good manifold - $250+
CSU/CSI or equivalent blow through carb - $1250
Aeromotive A1000 or Eliminator pump - $350-$500
Matching return style regulator - $170
Extreme Velocity or equivalent carb hat - $200
LM-2 wide-band O2 meter with data logging - $480
stand alone boost controller (deasent one) - $400
an ignition box that can do "boost timing" retard (6 BTM on the low side digital 7 on the high side) - $375-$830 *disclaimer: EFI or carb your gonna need and ignition box so I would say whatever the price of a boost controlling ignition box OVER what a "standard" box would cost
Total - $3200-*$3600

Not to mention if you change boost you gotta tear down the carb to make jet changes while one with the EFI will plug in a laptop and make a few adjustments in minutes while sipping on a cold glass of lemonade with clean hands.

I read a post on the TurboForums where a guy with a turbocharged 347 in a Mustang was very happy with his blow through carb, had very good street manners running 9 teens @ 147, he reluctantly tried an EFI system (I think it was the Holley HP EFI) right away before any tweaking he ran a 9.01 @ 149 and was getting 15 mpg cruising... How can you beat that. These ECU's can be programmed to control your fuel pump and fan, no more toggle switches and forgetting to turn your fan on. Don't get me wrong you just can't beat the XFI or the BS3 if that is what you need, for me it would be like a single person buying a 5 bedroom 2 1/2 bath house, if you got the cash then go for it but I'm not going to buy more than I need. First there were 4 speeds with Zoom clutches now automatics with transbrakes, there were dual point distributors now digital CD ignitions, there were carburetors now EFI, it's just the prgression of performance... D. Miles

[TheSilverBuick]

Considering you are going to boost the engine I'll consider the fuel system cost is a push between EFI and a carb (you'll need volume and pressure regulator for both). With a $700 intake manifold on my Buick 455, I have around $1500 in the EFI setup on my Buick 455, with a 4-bar map sensor, full fuel and timing control with a MegaSquirt 2.

[bryansMtngto]

well should be able to get the blower gear drive and blower soon. Almost done repairing house. Hope to have heat again next week. after house is done I'll be able to go back to car. Talked with Chris Jr. he has done a protype and told me hes ready anytime now. So hopfully after Holidays.
I have installed a few of the Holley system on turbo'd street cars 600HP area have to agree they work really well. Dont know if they can support 1000+ ??? since my goal is closer to 2k hp range. I decided at the time after talking to Jeremy at Rons to go with their Mechanical system. Hope i made a good choice. Time will tell.

[D. Miles]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

I have installed a few of the Holley system on turbo'd street cars 600HP area have to agree they work really well. Dont know if they can support 1000+ ???

Bryan, just asking, why don't you think the Holley HP EFI can support 1000+ HP? The Mustang I mentioned in my post as I stated ran a 9.01 @ 149 practically off the bat, this was a street car so I am assuming 3000+ lbs., after some tweaking, he did get into the 8's wouldn't this be in the 1000 fwhp? The Holley HP EFI and the Dominator EFI, which is basically Holley's answer to the XFI and BS3, both use the same software. There was also pics of a turbocharged Chevelle running one of the Holley EFI systems, the Dominator I think but I can not confirm this, that was running mid 8's. I'm quite sure that either of the Holley systems are capable of handling much more than 1000 HP as long as the hardware to do so is in place. Both can also do sequential EFI as well as DIS. I also looked into the Megasquirt deal too, although it is a great system and will do everything I want it to do and more, I just couldn't get past all the DIY printed circuit board and wiring... Thanks D. Miles

[bryansMtngto]

Originally Posted by D. Miles

Bryan, just asking, why don't you think the Holley HP EFI can support 1000+ HP? The Mustang I mentioned in my post as I stated ran a 9.01 @ 149 practically off the bat, this was a street car so I am assuming 3000+ lbs., after some tweaking, he did get into the 8's wouldn't this be in the 1000 fwhp? The Holley HP EFI and the Dominator EFI, which is basically Holley's answer to the XFI and BS3, both use the same software. There was also pics of a turbocharged Chevelle running one of the Holley EFI systems, the Dominator I think but I can not confirm this, that was running mid 8's. I'm quite sure that either of the Holley systems are capable of handling much more than 1000 HP as long as the hardware to do so is in place. Both can also do sequential EFI as well as DIS. I also looked into the Megasquirt deal too, although it is a great system and will do everything I want it to do and more, I just couldn't get past all the DIY printed circuit board and wiring... Thanks D. Miles

well at the time when i was deciding and i talked with there tech guys. they had only gone to about 800 Hp and even they wernt sure it would do 1000+. As to your Mustang combo. Well my car ran 9.3's at 3000 lbs. with only 633 Hp so no dont think hes at 1000 hp. More like mid to low 800's for high 8's. With there systems out today they may very well be able to handle over 1000 HP. They didnt even have the Domiator system or Duel system back when i was putting this together. Sorry to say. Since i got out of the business 5 years ago. Havnt been doing as many cars as I used too.

[HWYSTR455]

It's a waste to do an EFi system THEN boost. First, you will be replacing a number of items you just bought when adding boost. And when it comes to boost, you need to build the engine for boost, or you will be doing the same thing, replacing stuff you just bought. And you're not going to drive around on an engine that's 8:1 SCR or less, tune it, then add boost. You could run less boost with like a 9.5:1 SCR engine, but what's the point?

You could do a boosted engine first with a carb, then cut over to EFi, can iron out the boost stuff first. That would make more sense.

If you're concerned about the cost of an EFi conversion, then you probably shouldn't do either, efi or boost. Both are expensive. And it's not just the cost of the efi or boost parts, it's everything else you have to beef to be able to survive serious power. Shoot, to properly do a fuel system for an efi conversion, it's at least $1500, and that's on the low side. You can spend that alone on pumps, regulator(s), and filters, then you have to plumb it. Blower setup is like $5k+. Then there's packaging, and you still have trans, rear, and suspension.

For a blower engine, you need an aftermarket block too, for anything over like 750hp. You can build a 535ci and make 800hp NA. See where the math is taking you? Can't complain about spending $4k on efi if it's only a fraction of the total cost.

.

[HWYSTR455]

D.Miles - Have you looked at the Edelbrock EFI elbows before?

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...e_elbows.shtml

.

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

D.Miles - Have you looked at the Edelbrock EFI elbows before?

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...e_elbows.shtml

.

I bought one of them, I got the low profile one like in the link, should work good for my turbo app. Got a cheap LSX throttle body that bolted on perfect for $95. Nice and cheap. LOL