[CSX4350]

First let me say that I'm new to the forum, I have a large muscle car collection but this is my first Pontiac. I have always loved the 2nd Gen F bodies, and scored a pretty decent example of a rare (white with red interior) 70 TA automatic at the Mecum auction in Dallas.
Once I got the car home I found it hadn't been run in a while and, while it ran OK I decided to go through the ignition and carb. The carb ended up being sent off for a full restoration, but when I got it back the car won't idle below about 1050 RPM. After lots of troubleshooting with the carb restorer (a great guy, very knowlegeable and does awesome work) we realized that the CCS is allowing vacuum to the vacuum advance constantly. Unplugging the vacuum advance hose and the car idles perfectly. I do not have a service manual yet, so I was hoping to get some help troubleshooting the CCS system. I don't want to just start throwing parts at it.
I unplugged the electrical connector on the solenoid and that makes no difference. Is the solenoid energized or not to stop the vacuum from reaching the advance?

TIA

John

[necdb3]

I assume your speaking about the TCS system. (Transmission controlled spark) This is an early emission control device. It doesnt allow vac to the distributor for timing advance unless some conditions are met.

Conditions:

Cold eng or
overheating eng or
Trans in High Gear when at normal oper temp(auto 3rd gear, man 4th gear)

The solenoid doesnt allow vac to pass thru when it is energized. Unplugging the solenoid will DE energize the solenoid and allow adv.

Gm used this same system accross the car line.

[eaglesan13]

Sounds like a nice car, welcome to the boards.

Originally Posted by CSX4350

First let me say that I'm new to the forum, I have a large muscle car collection but this is my first Pontiac. I have always loved the 2nd Gen F bodies, and scored a pretty decent example of a rare (white with red interior) 70 TA automatic at the Mecum auction in Dallas.
Once I got the car home I found it hadn't been run in a while and, while it ran OK I decided to go through the ignition and carb. The carb ended up being sent off for a full restoration, but when I got it back the car won't idle below about 1050 RPM. After lots of troubleshooting with the carb restorer (a great guy, very knowlegeable and does awesome work) we realized that the CCS is allowing vacuum to the vacuum advance constantly. Unplugging the vacuum advance hose and the car idles perfectly. I do not have a service manual yet, so I was hoping to get some help troubleshooting the CCS system. I don't want to just start throwing parts at it.
I unplugged the electrical connector on the solenoid and that makes no difference. Is the solenoid energized or not to stop the vacuum from reaching the advance?

TIA

John

[CSX4350]

Yes, I messed up and tried to correct the CCS to TCS but it wouldn't give me the option to edit my post.

The solenoid is allowing vacuum to pass through all of the time. I need to check two things to start: is there voltage to the solenoid and is the solenoid working when voltage is applied. Can I just use a test light or VOM across the two terminals of the connector to test for voltage? Can I simply feed 12 volts into the solenoid (hot to one side ground to the other) to test it? Is the solenoid polarity sensitive?

[GETRIDAONE]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&highlight=TCS
This link might help

[necdb3]

Check the connector for power. One side should be hot all the time and the ground is controlled by the thermostatic switch and the switch on the trans. There is a fuse for that system in the fuse box.

Dave

[CSX4350]

For now I just plugged the vacuum advance and boy does this thing run! Much better than when I first got it. My carb rebuilder/restorer is fantastic if anyone needs a good one.

I picked up a spare set of wheels to put radials on for driving, these little skinny bias plys just burn through 1st and most of 2nd.

I have narrowed it down to the solenoid being bad, I'll get a new one ordered and slap it on there, but it sure is nice to know (after having it for 2 months) that the car runs right!

Thanks for the input, now I need to get a service manual. Yes, I know it's not supposed to have the chrome beauty rings...

[necdb3]

If you need a solenoid, they dont make that one, however, they are all wired the same. You can buy a reproduction solenoid for a corvette and swap the windings and gut into your original bracket. I have rewound these before but I wouldn't recommend it.

Your car looks great!

[CSX4350]

Interesting, I've found a reproduction at The Parts Place that looks identical to the one that is on the car now.

[Held for Ransom]

Yes, a fairly new reproduction from The Parts Place.

And, I thought you could have ordered a '70 TA w/trim rings?

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

And, I thought you could have ordered a '70 TA w/trim rings?

Yep, you could. If a '70 TA was originally ordered with them, they will show up on the PHS invoice... something around $10 - $15 on the invoice, as I recall.

[necdb3]

I looked on the parts place sight and couldn't find the solenoid. I see the trans switches. Does anyone have a P/N?

Never mind, I was thinking of 1972 cars which they dont make.

[CSX4350]

Try this

Parts Place Link

Right on top, P/N 1114437

[CSX4350]

Also, for options I have Y80-Decor Moldings and 731-Custom Trim but I don't see anything that specifically mentions the chrome trim rings.

[Held for Ransom]

All I was saying was your car could have come with trim rings so how was I or anyone to know or question.

Correct on the no repro. '72 unit.

[CSX4350]

My original assumption when I got the car was that the trim rings were correct, until I started doing research. Then you schooled me that they COULD be had as an option. I wasn't trying to be nasty in my response, it was more of a question: here's what options I have, did either of those include the trim rings? I just put it in such a way that it didn't come out right.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by CSX4350

Also, for options I have Y80-Decor Moldings and 731-Custom Trim but I don't see anything that specifically mentions the chrome trim rings.

Neither of those included wheel trim rings. Decor Moldings are the ones that run around the side windows and around the back of the hood/fenders. From the picture you posted, your car does have them.

Custom Trim is for the deluxe interior... comfort weave inserts on the seats and door panels, and the grab bar on the dash. Also added pull straps to the door panels and nicer trim around the interior door handles.

Sometimes sellers put trim rings on these cars to try to "hide" the fact that it doesn't have the correct wheels. Does yours have JWs?

[CSX4350]

Nope, not the original wheels, they don't even appear to be the right size. According to the window sticker it should have 15's and it has 14's.

[muscle_collector]

i love the red interior, but i sure thought the tires looked really small for a 70 t/a. makes sense now.

[FunctionalShaker]

My understanding is that trim rings were a dealer option.