[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Camaro smokes it everywhere else.

Which is why the Fordophiles don't want to talk about road course numbers.

And of course they don't want to talk about sales numbers either. As the power numbers for the 5th gen Mustang go up, the sales numbers have gone
d
o
w
n
.
.
.

The Mustang sold better when they were cheap slow cars...

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Which is why the Fordophiles don't want to talk about road course numbers.

And of course they don't want to talk about sales numbers either. As the power numbers for the 5th gen Mustang go up, the sales numbers have gone
d
o
w
n
.
.
.

The Mustang sold better when they were cheap slow cars...

The two companies took two different approaches to it.

Ford went with overall power and top speed. Great for drag racing and yea it handles good with the electronic Bilsteins.

GM went the more technical route with the Magnetic Ride to make the car a superior handling car. they realized that many people do track days and that this car is more suited for those than the drag strip.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Wick]

Who cares how fast the ZL1 is, it's UGLY!!! I'm not a Ford guy but the Blue Oval beats the GM hands down.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Wick

Who cares how fast the ZL1 is, it's UGLY!!! I'm not a Ford guy but the Blue Oval beats the GM hands down.

Styling is subjective.

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Styling is subjective.

I'm sure that's what the salesman says every time a customer says "That is the most buttugly car I've ever seen, I wouldn't be caught dead driving that warthogs butt".

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by sleepy

I'm sure that's what the salesman says every time a customer says "That is the most buttugly car I've ever seen, I wouldn't be caught dead driving that warthogs butt".

Yea yet 100K each year put their butts in those seats.

[sleepy]

more like 70k. You can talk many people into giving up their money for nothing(look at all the scams that suck people in)
and 63 million voted for the turd in the white house,
how many millions bought pet rocks?
How many millions paid 500+ for a tickle me elmo?
How many thousands paid $1000+ for a PS3 or Wii?
What's your point?

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by sleepy

more like 70k. You can talk many people into giving up their money for nothing(look at all the scams that suck people in)
and 63 million voted for the turd in the white house,
how many millions bought pet rocks?
How many millions paid 500+ for a tickle me elmo?
How many thousands paid $1000+ for a PS3 or Wii?
What's your point?

GM has sold 100K camaro's per year since introduction in 2010.

Keep to the topic which is the Camaro vs Mustang.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by sleepy

more like 70k.

The Mustang's sales numbers are in the 70's, not the Camaro's.

OK. Champ claims the retro mustang was a big mistake.

It has been. The 6 models years prior to the introduction of the 5th gen Mustang, the yearly average Mustang sales were about 143,000 per year (Peak sales 2001 at 169,198 - Low sales 2004 at 129,858). This was for a 4th gen Mustang that had been introduced in 1994 - an old outdated design for sure - but sales were fairly consistent with less than a 40,000 unit difference between the high and the low.

Since the introduction of the 5th gen Mustang, the yearly average Mustang sales have been about 109,000 (Peak sales of 166,530 in 2006 - Low sales of 66,623 in 2009). Even with the new design and NO competition in it's segment - the 5th gen Mustang couldn't beat the numbers of the tired old looking 2001 4th gen. And sales variation was nearly 100,000 units less between the high and the low.

GM said a retro GTO would NOT sell.
GM said retro doesn't sell.
You support the hypocrits at GM who say retro doesn't sell yet put out a retro camaro?

The Camaro is the LEAST retro of the current Pony Car crowd, yet it is the best selling car. The Mustang's sales have plummeted and the Challenger has yet to break 40,000 sales in a year.

I'm glad they didn't go as retro as Ford and Chrysler. I'd have been happier if they hadn't gone as retro as they did.

Ford's "new" Mustang appears to be a total departure from the retro look, so it appears Ford also realizes that the 5th gen Mustang has been a marketing disaster.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by The Champ

The Mustang's sales numbers are in the 70's, not the Camaro's.



It has been. The 6 models years prior to the introduction of the 5th gen Mustang, the yearly average Mustang sales were about 143,000 per year (Peak sales 2001 at 169,198 - Low sales 2004 at 129,858). This was for a 4th gen Mustang that had been introduced in 1994 - an old outdated design for sure - but sales were fairly consistent with less than a 40,000 unit difference between the high and the low.

Since the introduction of the 5th gen Mustang, the yearly average Mustang sales have been about 109,000 (Peak sales of 166,530 in 2006 - Low sales of 66,623 in 2009). Even with the new design and NO competition in it's segment - the 5th gen Mustang couldn't beat the numbers of the tired old looking 2001 4th gen. And sales variation was nearly 100,000 units less between the high and the low.



The Camaro is the LEAST retro of the current Pony Car crowd, yet it is the best selling car. The Mustang's sales have plummeted and the Challenger has yet to break 40,000 sales in a year.

I'm glad they didn't go as retro as Ford and Chrysler. I'd have been happier if they hadn't gone as retro as they did.

Ford's "new" Mustang appears to be a total departure from the retro look, so it appears Ford also realizes that the 5th gen Mustang has been a marketing disaster.

What's it like to go through your day knowing that it's down hill from the moment you open your mouth?

You spend countless hours researching your thesis (that Mustangs are a failure) for a paper that nobody wants to read. But turnabout is fair play - if the Camaro was such a success, why did Chevrolet stop production for 8 model years? Blah blah blah

If you like the Camaro, buy the Camaro. If you like a Mustang, buy a Mustang. Accept that each does something well. And if I want to read an uninformed partisan hack bloviate, I'll muddle through your posts...

[big hammer]

[QUOTE=68gtoMN;4657472]What's it like to go through your day knowing that it's down hill from the moment you open your mouth?

You spend countless hours researching your thesis (that Mustangs are a failure) for a paper that nobody wants to read. But turnabout is fair play - if the Camaro was such a success, why did Chevrolet stop production for 8 model years? Blah blah blah

If you like the Camaro, buy the Camaro. If you like a Mustang, buy a Mustang. Accept that each does something well. And if I want to read an uninformed partisan hack bloviate, I'll muddle through your posts...[/QUOTE]

now that really describes alot of the ford fanbois here.

[Overkillphil]

Originally Posted by sleepy

more like 70k. You can talk many people into giving up their money for nothing(look at all the scams that suck people in)
and 63 million voted for the turd in the white house,
how many millions bought pet rocks?
How many millions paid 500+ for a tickle me elmo?
How many thousands paid $1000+ for a PS3 or Wii?
What's your point?

You forgot "Sea Monkeys"!

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by Overkillphil

You forgot "Sea Monkeys"!

Mood rings.
Spy glasses
Weight reducing bracelets
milage magnets on the fuel line.
Smiling bobs pecker growing pills
worry stones
the segway
bigmouth billy bass
comfort wipe and body snake.
Slap choppy
chia pet.
jim and tammy baker.
oral roberts
sunless tanning spray.
the club
fake alarms
recorded dog barks.
The clapper.

[sleepy]

OK. Champ claims the retro mustang was a big mistake.
GM said a retro GTO would NOT sell.
GM said retro doesn't sell.
You support the hypocrits at GM who say retro doesn't sell yet put out a retro camaro?
If you'd buy a camaro, you'd date a woman with a butt that knocks stuff off the shelf as she waddles thru walmart just because she gives killer head.

[street_rodder]

Originally Posted by sleepy

If you'd buy a camaro, you'd date a woman with a butt that knocks stuff off the shelf as she waddles thru walmart just because she gives killer head.

Now thats FUNNY sH*t.....I just left Wal Mart awhile ago and ACTUALLY seen this happening!!

Big ole fat black Mamma...bent over to put merchandise under her cart and knocked a whole stack of clothes off a rack with her ass!!

Funny sh*t........

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by sleepy

If you'd buy a camaro, you'd date a woman with a butt that knocks stuff off the shelf as she waddles thru walmart just because she gives killer head.

If styling (which is looks) is subjective why don't we see fat ugly women entering beauty contests and in Playboy ?

[mrrat1]

The COPO in Hot Rod looks like a very stout 1/4 mile machine. They say very deep in the 9's & maybe an 8.9 in there.........thats what I like!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by mrrat1

The COPO in Hot Rod looks like a very stout 1/4 mile machine. They say very deep in the 9's & maybe an 8.9 in there.........thats what I like!

Back on the basic topic, I agree, for the few people who will get a chance to purchase a COPO it will be a very nice vehicle/ engine combination.

Tom Vaught

[68gtoMN]

Muscle cars have traditionally been defined by brutal acceleration, mixing in a modicum of handling and braking. Today's cars, even in the most subdued configuration, are infinitely better in suspension and braking than with our beloved "vintage" muscle cars. That said, the Chevy was designed from the Holden Platform, with rigidity and independent rear suspension. Chevy's offering is impressive in the twisties and between stop lights too. They bet the farm on creating a road car that is an overall performer (ala Porsche 911 turbo) vs. a stoplight-to-stoplight brute. I believe the Mustang is more focused on acceleration than handling, even though this Shelby is arguably one of Ford's best handling Mustangs ever. No matter what, neither of these cars will be a slouch in the corners by anyone's standards and the Mustang fails only to measure to the leading numbers of the Chevy and likely leads the Challenger by equal or greater difference.

The first test focused more heavily on the road course/driving dynamics measure. This is the first test. Others will soon follow. Then we'll have more than one data point by which to measure the impression of the cars.

But let's look at this from a practical matter - nobody runs their mouth about how their car can lap the Nurburgring faster than another car. The Street is where these two will fight for supremacy. Most talk about stoplight-to-stoplight, top speed, sound, sex appeal, etc. From those measures, the Mustang will likely be crowned the winner.

Two great cars! Choose your poison (no snake reference intended).

[Tazzz2]

They're both pretty cool,,,, but show me the 200mph Mustang that can go around a corner and drive down the street??? I'm not aware of any (could exist,,, just haven't heard of,,, or seen one).... Been in the Lingenfelter ZL1 and man it rocks,,,, does Roush or others offer a 200mph offering in the Mustang camp????