[Cliff R]

Are we talking about "trucks" here, or cars with beds on them?

Unless your truck has 8 lug nuts per wheel, full floating axle, and rated over 10,000lbs towing, it's a light duty truck, or closer to a car with a bed on it.

In the light duty truck range, they all have their shortcomings.

I've owned two Chevy trucks, and two Dodge trucks since 1998. I bought a 6.5 turbo 1998 truck with a 4L80E trans in 1998, brand new. It was OK, aside from eating lift pumps, and underpowered (no intercooler), never grumbled once in the 100,000 miles I put on it.

I sold it and bought a prestine 1992 Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins turbo diesel, with only 20,000 miles on it. I ran that truck till it would go no further. It was just OK, as the early diesel set-ups were low on power and the 518 transmission is a piss-poor way to put diesel power on the ground. Even with a billet converter and my best efforts inside the transmission, the gear spread is all wrong for serious towing in that platform. With 3.54 rear gears, it's too many rpm's in 3rd, and not enough in 4th at highway towing speeds.

I replaced that truck with a 2001 Dodge 24 valve 5.9 Cummin's with the NV4500 transmission and 4.10 gears. MUCH better at every level. Ran that truck till it was in need of replacement, and went with a 2007 Silverado with the Duramax/Allison set-up.

I never even looked at Ford trucks at all, but LOVE the looks and heavy duty chassis. They are NOT very popular in these parts, guys that are serious about towing absolutely HATE the 6.0 diesel set-ups. The 7.3 intercooled Ford trucks were, and still are, very popular, if you can get a transmission beefed up enough to hold the power, which is an expensive undertaking (E4OD).

Anyhow, overall I'm pretty content with the Duramax/Allison. I've added 4" exhaust and a Predator programmer (doesn't really need it). It rides like a Danali and has the power of the 24 valve Cummin's, just doesn't make all that noise.

The Dodge edges out the Chevy for fuel economy, but not on power. The Duramax is a strong runner, easily managing the steepest grades with 10,000-12,000 pounds behind it, and you can still here the stereo just fine at any speed or engine rpms.

The Dodge pulled just as hard, but you had to SCREAM over the turbo (over 40lbs boost) on hard pulls. I still have a soft spot for the "rough and grumbly" Dodge with the manual transmission. The Duramax seems like a "sissy" truck in comparison, but does everything equally as well, if not better, while riding in a quiet comfortable cab.

My Dodge would get near 25mpg's on trips unloaded, never once under 20mpg's on the highway empty, and 11-15 towing. The Duramax will see just over 20mpg's empty, and 11-13 towing.

Don't know how the Chevy will do in the long haul? It's only got 40,000 miles on it right now, and no problems anyplace to date. I'm due for a new shop truck this year, so may not find out.

As for a vote, I'd take the Ford Super Duty chassis, Cummin's engine, backed by the Allison 6 speed transmission, if I had that choice.....Cliff

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

Here we go......

Pot meet Kettle

[The Boss]

I agree with you Cliff - this discussion is all over the place. Limit it to 1-ton or to lighter duty trucks - I like both my 2000 F-350 7.3 & my 2007 Tacoma, but they don't belong in the same conversation as they have vastly different uses.

[Cliff R]

I would also add that these 5 and 6 lug nut trucks have no place towing car trailers up near 10,000 lbs or greater.

I actually got pulled over in NC coming back from Florida pulling my 24" trailer with six full size Harley Davidson motorcylces in it. The State Trooper saw my Chevy truck pulling the trailer and whipped across the median and pulled us over. When he got up to the truck, he realized it was the Duramax/Allison and commented that he thought it was a light duty 1/2 ton gas truck pulling too much weight. We had a brief conversation about it, and he went on his way.

They are cracking down HARD on guys pulling heavy loads on the Interstate with light duty half ton trucks, so be aware of it. They will do the same thing to you here in Ohio. Several folks I know have been pulled over and ticketed for pulling too much trailer with not enough truck....FWIW.....Cliff

[iowapub]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I would hope that the GM camp has the most votes considering that this is a GM Brand Forum Site.

Tom Vaught

When did this happen? This is a GM Brand Forum but from what I've seen, this is a pre 1975 Pontiac site packed full of GM hatters.
Imported repopped aftermarket parts are defended more than US companies.

If I were in the market for a new light duty truck, I would look at a GM or Ford. It would be based on personal experience and research. I just bought a new (used) car, and looked at both brands. I chose GM again. I could name several things I liked about the Fords and things I didn't like about some GM products.

There is a lot of good data stated and posted and a lot of very knowlegeble people. But when posts get full of hate, I just skip to something I can learn something from.

[Brewster]

I almost bought a Ford but due to their Inter-Cooler and/or Electronic Steering I bought a GM. It all depends on how your going to use the truck and for me its plowing, hauling, trying to get stuck...what a truck is for.
Oh, I also decided to keep my money here in the states and bought a USA product instead of one that is just assembled here.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I almost bought a Ford but due to their Inter-Cooler and/or Electronic Steering I bought a GM. It all depends on how your going to use the truck and for me its plowing, hauling, trying to get stuck...what a truck is for.
Oh, I also decided to keep my money here in the states and bought a USA product instead of one that is just assembled here.

Just so you know- The Toyota has a higher domestic parts content than the Chevy.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

So, I repond back to prove a point, you call it stalking. OK. But you respond to me (obviously sore about it) and somehow that's not stalking ? Interesting.

The next time you prove a point on this board will be the first time you have ever done so.

What I did was not stalking. I responded to what you posted on this thread.

You can't respond on topic to my post, so you take something from another thread and try and change the topic. Why? Because you can't prove a point.

And yes, what you did on the thread you're referring to was stalking.

When you take a personal photo of a board member - posted on a thread requesting folks post photos of themselves - and then create a "Brokeback Mountain" title for that same photo and post it on a totally different thread and make derogatory comments - that's stalking.

I guess if that's what you need to do to make yourself feel superior - have at it.

I can deal with you calling me "chump", "gay", "hick", "toothless" and with your making comments about my wife's appearance.

To me, and many others here, you keep getting smaller with each post.

[ERIC AULL]

I bought a 2000 Chevy Silverado LT (5.3 ) , brand new. It has treated me well. Except: 1) I replace the window "winder" on each door every other year. and 2)There is a little Diesel sound in the cooler weather. It lasts about 15-20 seconds. I have been told that it is a wrist pin clearance issue, is 'normal'., and not to worry about it.....105,000 miles now. If I were to buy a new pick-up todat, I would probably go FORD F-250...based on looks alone . I haven't researched powertrain, etc. Eric

[bigunde]

I have to admit i just bought a cough cough Dodge Ram 1500 from a buddy that needed money. Its a 2004 reg cab short bed with the 4.7 and has 251,000 miles. The ONLY thing that has been done is routine service, brakes/rotors, and a new radiator. Have to admit I kinda like it. So now i have a Chevy 2500hd, Ford F-150 Company truck, and a Dodge . LOL

[Alvin]

[Alvin]

[igoslow]

Without reading all the replies.... Ford, cause they didn't take the money

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by big hammer

it sure seems to have got your attention hasn't it? you seem quite "excited".

don't get so upset. it's apparent from your lack of self discipline that you are already coming to terms with the fact that you "drank the kool-aid" with your ford purchase.

Simply put, I dont beleive in government welfare bailouts that screw the taxpayer over.

You ever heard of "We the People ?"

It felt like "We the Government Motors" when the facts came out -

Originally Posted by The Champ

The next time you prove a point on this board will be the first time you have ever done so.

What I did was not stalking. I responded to what you posted on this thread.

You can't respond on topic to my post, so you take something from another thread and try and change the topic. Why? Because you can't prove a point.

And yes, what you did on the thread you're referring to was stalking.

When you take a personal photo of a board member - posted on a thread requesting folks post photos of themselves - and then create a "Brokeback Mountain" title for that same photo and post it on a totally different thread and make derogatory comments - that's stalking.

I guess if that's what you need to do to make yourself feel superior - have at it.

I can deal with you calling me "chump", "gay", "hick", "toothless" and with your making comments about my wife's appearance.

To me, and many others here, you keep getting smaller with each post.

Good, your response to me first out of all the others shows I got to you.

Never called you gay, or made remarks about your wifes looks. You brought that up, so quit bein such a teenage drama queen.

You're a Chebby guy. Chebby wins everything, Chebby did this, Chebby did that.
You remind me of why I started disliking Chebby guys years ago; I can't count how many Chebby followers told me to put a 400 Chebby under the hood of my 65 GTO when I had it

I only choose Ford beacuse my trucks get worked and until International brings back a pickup , that's what I'm sticking to. None of the Chebbys we've used could hold up to the hell we put 'em through.

And if we're talking tough trucks for longevity, working like a truck, and taking a beating like a real truck an old International would whip 'em all

[Alvin]

Chevy Dodge & Ford comparisons testing: 1977 "Battle Of The Big Blocks" (Car Craft)

1977 "Battle Of The Big Blocks" (Car Craft)

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King Rat: 454 'Big 10' Pickups scorched the 70's!
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...12/index3.html

June 1977 Car Craft headline blared: “Supercars of the Seventies are Where You Find Them: Car Craft’s First Truck Off

King Rat: 454 'Big 10' Pickups scorched the 70's!

This is my most recent story in the Chicago area "Gearhead News" - all about the 454 Big 10 1/2 ton whipped everything in sight - including the fabled Dodge Lil Red Express...

It’s a fact: Chevy and GMC 454 pickups were not just the quickest pickups of the 70’s, but, due to loopholes for ‘heavy duty’ vehicles, they were also quicker than any cars you could buy except 4 speed Trans Ams or Z-28s. In 1975, the worst year for super cars, GM installed an “Efficiency System,” which included a catalytic converter, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) and electronic ignition, on all cars and any pickups rated below 6000lbs Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). The “heavy duty emissions” 454 used in C-20 and C-30 trucks got high energy ignition, but no smog equipment, so it actually gained 15hp over the 230hp 1974 454.

In 1976 Chevy introduced the “Big 10” rated above 6000lbs GVW. This heavy half ton’s optional 454 resembled a supercar engine from 1965. It lacked the belt driven smog pump (said by GMC engineers to steal 15hp), EGR and catalytic converter.

The same year an L-82 Corvette ran a 16.5 e.t. for Road and Track, a 454 Big 10 with the standard Turbo 400 automatic and 3.07:1 axle ran a 16.9 e.t. for Pickup Van and 4WD. The PV4 crew was particularly impressed with the un-smogged gas mileage of the 454 – 14mpg. They fell in love with the Big 10 and named it “Pickup of the Year.”

Soon the Big 10 454 sparked a mini trend. A June 1977 Car Craft headline blared: “Supercars of the Seventies are Where You Find Them: Car Craft’s First Truck Off.” They drag tested the 454 step side with an optional positraction 3.73:1 axle against a Dodge “Warlock” (precursor to the Lil’ Red Express Truck with similar gold pin striping and bedside stakes) sporting a 440 V8 and 3.55:1 axle and an F-250 Ford with a 460 engine and 3.25:1 gears. The crew spent all day whittling the Rat’s e.t. down to just 15.51 seconds at 87mph. The Dodge, without the benefit of posi, scored a 15.93/86mph e.t. and the Ford ran 16.32/83mph.

Given the Chevy’s 4300lb girth and blackjack weight distribution, a 15.51 second run is impressive. In addition to the heavy iron big block, Turbo 400, and heavier springs the test vehicle came with nearly every option in the book, including air conditioning and new for ’77 power windows and door locks. It also sported the “Chevy Sport” trim with tape stripes, white spoke wheels and fat tires. The truck was a boulevard cruising “Cowboy Cadillac” that could still embarrass any 1977 car on the strip. The truck didn’t come cheap. Though based priced at $3989, the window sticker was a shocking $8467. PV4 tested the same black step side in their August ’77 issue. With plenty of hard break in miles inflicted by the Car Craft hooligans, PV-4 measured a thrifty 14.4mpg on its fuel economy test loop, despite the high winding 3.73:1 axle

Car Craft writers emphasized that the Big 10 was a 60’s supercar holdout. “It brings back memories of days spent behind the wheel of a Rat motored Chevelle with 3.70:1 gears. Merely stomping on the go-pedal is enough to produce billowing clouds of tire smoke.”
This was a rare period when California engines had an edge since California “heavy duty emissions” 454s rated 250hp at 3800rpm and 385lbs/ft of torque at 2800rpm in ’76 and ’77, while Federal 454s rated 245hp and 365lbs/ft. The Big 10 454 retained the ’76 compression ratio of 8.25:1, while compression dropped to 8.15:1 for the ‘77 ¾ and 1 ton.

For 1978 the Chevy Sport added a hood ornament, color keyed bumpers and chrome hubs for the white spoke wheels. Unfortunately, Chevy lowered the compression to 8.0:1 for the Big 10 and 7.9:1 for the ¾ and 1 tons. For Californians, the Super Truck party was already waning. They got a smogged Rat that made just 205hp at 3600rpm and 335lbs/ft at 2800rpm. 49 state Rats made 240hp at 3800rpm and 370lbs/ft at 2800rpm.

According to a December ’78 Hot Rod test of a 454 GMC with the flashy “Amarillo” paint and stripes package “The difference (between Federal and California engines) is nearly a full second in the quarter mile, two miles per gallon of gasoline and rubber in second gear.” Hot Rod drove the 240hp Amarillo to a 15.60 e.t at 87mph at Orange County Raceway. “That run is the quickest laid down by any HOT ROD test truck in recent history, dethroning the ’78 Dodge Lil’ Red Truck that ran a 15.71/88mph e.t. (June ’78 HR).” Testing the same truck in the February ’79 issue of PV4, editor Don E. Browne wrote “The Amarillo was considerably faster than the 205hp GMC and even was a tad quicker the Dodge Lil’ Red Truck (both of which PV4 tested in September ’78).”

By 1979 even federal Big 10s used the 205hp 454. Motor Trend drove a GMC “Street Coupe” (GMC’s version of the Chevy Sport) to a 0-60mph time of 8.0 seconds and a 16.4 second, 83mph e.t. This was still quick for anything built in the late ’70s, but ironically, the smogged Rat suffered an even bigger penalty in gas mileage. While the 8.25:1 compression ’77 delivered 14mpg, and the lower compression, but unsmogged ’78 made 12mpg, the smogged ’79 got about 10mpg.

It’s possible a ’79 Dodge LRET might have beaten the ‘79 GMC. Chrysler used twin catalytic converters on the “police” 360 to maintain a true dual exhaust, while GM’s “X” dual exhaust forced both pipes into a single catalytic converter then split them back into twin mufflers and tailpipes.

By 1980 the “heavy duty emissions” loophole was raised to 8500lbs, limiting the 454 to ¾ and 1 ton trucks. Though the “Super Truck” genre has waxed and waned since the demise of the 454 Big 10, later models like Ford’s “Lightning” couldn’t claim to be faster than most performance cars. The smog loopholes of ‘76-‘78 created a unique era when Rat powered pickups could outrun 99% of contemporary cars. It’s an era we will likely never see again.

[hobbygto65]

Chevy Duramax or Tundra

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Good, your response to me first out of all the others shows I got to you.

If that's what you want to believe, have at it.

Fact is, you were so embarrassed to see the ecobust lose to the Chevy in BigUnde's post. You just had to post another youtube showing the ecobust winning. Funny thing is, there was another youtube showing the ecobust losing in the other lane.

Never called you gay, or made remarks about your wifes looks. You brought that up, so quit bein such a teenage drama queen.

The drama queen... You're trying to backpedal so fast that your spinning out of control.

You're a Chebby guy. Chebby wins everything, Chebby did this, Chebby did that.
You remind me of why I started disliking Chebby guys years ago; I can't count how many Chebby followers told me to put a 400 Chebby under the hood of my 65 GTO when I had it

You just don't get it. I'm a GM guy. I'd never put a Chevy in a Pontiac - that's something a Ford guy would do.

I've posted multiple times about GM's dominance in NASCAR and dirt track racing. GM has won Championships with multiple car divisions.

GM beat Ford to their first manufacturer's championship with Oldsmobile in 1955. Chevy then won in '58, '59, 60 and '61. Pontiac ended that streak by winning in '62.

Ford has a nice little run in the mid 60's when GM had the racing ban and then Chrylser boycotted NASCAR (pretty easy to win when you run by yourself).

In the 70's, GM won 7 of 10 with Dodge getting 2 and Plymouth 1.

In the 80's, GM won all 10, including 2 by Buick.

It wasn't until 1992 that Ford finally won another championship. (helps when Ford only ran one brand and GM had to split their points between Chevy and Pontiac). Regardless, GM still won more in the 90's than Ford.

In the 2000's, Ford has actually done worse than the 90's - only winning 2 of 12 championships.

If you want the final numbers - that's 39 championships for GM, 15 for Ford, 3 for Mopar and 3 for Hudson.

I only choose Ford beacuse my trucks get worked and until International brings back a pickup , that's what I'm sticking to. None of the Chebbys we've used could hold up to the hell we put 'em through.

Yeah, those Fords really hold up well when the going gets a little tough...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CGYA04DNTY

I will give Ford credit though - they are much better than the Toyota. But then, I've never considered Toyota to be much of a truck. (you may want to cheat and just go to about 4 minutes in - Ford people take a long time to talk about the fluff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE

And if we're talking tough trucks for longevity, working like a truck, and taking a beating like a real truck an old International would whip 'em all

Bought my first truck from my Dad - a 1958 IHC 3/4T with a plow. Good truck.

[james brady]

Next time you are running down interstate just count the number of one tons you see pulling heavy loads. You will notice that ford and dodge will be pulling the big loads and duramaxes will be pulling the campers!

[Sirrotica]

Well one thing almost everybody agrees on is that IH builds better trucks than any of the big 3.......... Finally something almost everyone agrees on.......................



IH headquarters has been in Springfield Oh. If they just built something in the light truck field they probably couldn't build them fast enough.

[james brady]

Next time you are running down interstate just count the number of one tons you see pulling heavy loads. You will notice that ford and dodge will be pulling the big loads and duramaxes will be pulling the campers!