['ol Pinion head]

'68 RA II Rh exhaust manifold had a flapper and bimetal spring to open it up. Many originals, the spring and flapper is gone, that's how it is with the manifold I have. it's supposed to rain hard today, will be inside and get some pics.

Engine should have a 5 blade flex fan and corrct spacer. the fan is a "346" and typically the date code will predate the car build by quite a few months. I've removed and inspected from an original RAIV engine an original "346" flex fan that was dated 10 months prior. Off of original D port engines have pulled nearly a dozen 5 blade flex fans and the date spans were often far from "tight". hard to say dating on this fan, but I wouldn't expect an original to have "346" dated say 3/ 68

[PurelyGTO68]

Does anyone know what was the first RAII GTO built? Did the factory create the BHC in the same day they were assembled? How do we know 5-20-68 was the first GTO RAII?....does PHS have that info? How many different plants were GTOs assembled at? What is the latest day we know GTO RAII cars were built? Late July? 3 cars/day if only one factory is involved....if 3 plants were building cars then one per day per plant? If 4 or more plants then some days there would be no RAII cars built. If so, then the 5-20-68 date may not apply to all factories. So many questions....

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Does anyone know what was the first RAII GTO built?
Nope, not defacto.

Did the factory create the BHC in the same day they were assembled?
1-3 days after completion.
That is the range for the cars where I have both a Buildsheet and BHC (or Invoice) for the same car. Regardless of Mfg Plant.

How do we know 5-20-68 was the first GTO RAII?....does PHS have that info?
In essence they do, In reality they are not going to do that dig - or at least not publicize it for us if it has been done.

Would need to start at around Invoice 690,000 ... then comb all the way through to #900,000 +/- to go ahead and grab all the Ram II cars. Lotta BHC's.
They mainly just preserve and protect the documents.

How many different plants were GTOs assembled at?
Ram1 = 6 Plants = 808 units
Ram2 = 5 Plants = 246 units
We have a breakdown per plant, but my browser isn't giving me the manage attachments option right now.

What is the latest day we know GTO RAII cars were built? Late July? 3 cars/day if only one factory is involved....if 3 plants were building cars then one per day per plant? If 4 or more plants then some days there would be no RAII cars built. If so, then the 5-20-68 date may not apply to all factories. So many questions....

We only have about 25 examples known, out of 246 cars.
Only have common shared documents on roughly half of those 25.
Still a long long way to go ...

Pretty much everything that everyone has been able to dig up has already been posted (bulletins, memos, documents ...) amongst the Firebird thread and this thread. Majority is in the Bird thread.

The chrome lid is bigger than the RA lid.
Not a good swap if its even do-able at all.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I went to the limits of my data cross-checking on some 69 Buildsheets for Fans.

RamIII Standard Fan (with "BO" 3 core Radiator) is a 53 Spacer and a 346 Blade.
We know this to be a Non-Clutch 5 Blade Fan

A/C is PH spacer with 546 Blade

RamIII HD Cooling (with "PA" 4 core) is a 53 Spacer and a 346 Blade.

RamIII HD Cooling -AND- HD Fan (with "PA" 4 core) is _H Spacer and a 134 Blade
This is a Clutched 7 Blade Fan

RamIV - no sheets from proper plants to fully relate codes correctly

For 1968 - Ram Air Engines - its looking like probably had to special order the option # 514 to get the "Fan and Clutch HD 7 Blade $5.27" .
I had never even paid attention to that option being in the list before.

If #514 was inclusive with R/A option, it would probably be called out with the same verbage.

[1oldgoat]

"Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?
That is our understanding. But hard to say what might have actually happened with every car at every dealership. "

I have a copy of a dealer prep repair order the says install ram air scoops for my 68 Ram Air I that I can post if you think it could add to the discussion? I know it's not a II car but it is totally unrestored and complete.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 1oldgoat

"Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?
That is our understanding. But hard to say what might have actually happened with every car at every dealership. "

I have a copy of a dealer prep repair order the says install ram air scoops for my 68 Ram Air I that I can post if you think it could add to the discussion? I know it's not a II car but it is totally unrestored and complete.

It would be cool to see. Did you get the "as shipped" parts returned to you as well? Can you post a pic of your fan blade? If you have your BHC...can you post the invoice date?

I am curious if the dealer prep order says to reuse the air cleaner lid or if a new lid was provided in the RA kit. I presume the surplus parts remaining after "the procedure" would be the snorkel air cleaner (possibly a lid), two closed hood scoops and the flexible hose from the heat riser shroud to the snorkel. Does that sound about right or am I missing something?

[johnta1]

I am curious if the dealer prep order says to reuse the air cleaner lid or if a new lid was provided in the RA kit.

Bulletin for RA II:



Fan:

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Bulletin for RA II:



Fan:

Note My II car did have a chrome air cleaner lid on it back in 76 when I bought it I still have it.I bought a black one thinking it was correct???

[johnta1]

Would a 'non-RA II' (stock) air cleaner have a chrome top?
(I would think so, just different size possibly?)

[The Boss]

E-mailed Ross on his BHC Todd.

Don't have anything other than the burnout video of Chuck's Red Duece.

[johnta1]

Some earlier threads on RA II's

RA II Roll Call

RA II GTO

[Greg Reid]

Base '68 GTO 4bbl aircleaner had the chrome top. Open scoop RA cars with the foam seal did not IIRC. Not sure about the 2bbl cars?

[The Boss]

There are two of them here on the forum, I believe I PM'd you (or somebody else) the links to them. They are both within a couple hours drive of me - I can assist with them if you would like.

I would go higher on the valuation of the convertible - with less than a handful of them surviving to date I would double that number at least.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

There are two of them here on the forum, I believe I PM'd you (or somebody else) the links to them. They are both within a couple hours drive of me - I can assist with them if you would like.

I would go higher on the valuation of the convertible - with less than a handful of them surviving to date I would double that number at least.

Thanks Boss,
I didn't get those PMs....can you send me those links again please?
Did you ever get to cross check the EUN from our car to blocks you have come across in the past? If so, do you have an idea what casting date I should look for?

I am going to call the insurance company today and discuss raising the coverage and see what they will be agreeable to regarding the amount. Thanks for your reply and offer to help with sourcing a block.

On a side note, I sprayed some clear on the side of the cowl where some of the original green paint remained.....it looked awesome in person . Way better then it looks in books or online. I am looking forward to painting the car that color. Should look killer with black top and interior.

[The Boss]

Just found this in one of my folders - not sure if it's been posted in here before.

[Judge273]

Liking those Head prices!

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Just found this in one of my folders - not sure if it's been posted in here before.

That is a great bulletin. I noticed the lifters are a special part number....are they a semi solid type or is there something special about them?

Were the 9792506 blocks cast in special runs or batches? Seems like the ones I have located were cast during two date ranges....Mid March or late May. The late May blocks might have the 2506 part hand stamped where the grinding thing occurred. My car is a 05D body date so the late May block casting date isn't appropriate. Is mid March okay or did Pontiac cast these blocks in April also?

[The Boss]

There are three AS-CAST 2506 dates that we have on record as of this date.

J177, L187 and C118 - the first two dates being exclusively for the Ram Air I motors but the C118 date was used for I's as well. As for the C118 blocks in II's, they have been found as late as an invoice date of 06/24 in the Baltimore built Alpine Blue MIA body however I also have records of an E278 Ground & Stamped WY block in a Framingham built car also invoiced on 06/24. I have records of an F148 Ground & Stamped WY as well.

Where the cutoff came for the ground & stamped cars I don't quite know however both my & Ross's 05C built Pontiac Cars will have C118 As-Cast blocks in them and based on what I've seen, yours should as well.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Here is the updated breakdown for GTOwolf's car using his BHC.
Asterisks are the things I missed from the buildsheet.
Car #16 on the list

68 GTO Hardtop, Ram Air II, 4speed
Black, Black Vinyl Top, Black Bucket Seats

242378P318xxx = PMD Plant
Build Date May 29, 1968
Body build date = 05D
Invoice Date June 01, 1968
Invoice Number = 761367
Dealer / Zone 07- 631 = PMD Retail Store

SVT - Cordova Top ...................................... 94.79
347 - Ram Air II ....................................... 473.94
358 - M21 4speed ..................................... 184.31
361 - STT HD Posi ....................................... 63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle ............................................ n/c
382 - AM Radio ........................................... 61.09
392 - Rear Spkr Verbaphonic........................ 52.66 *
414 - HideAways......................................... . 52.66
444 - Rally Gauges & Tach ........................... 84.26
461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs ............................ 21.06
473 =
471 - Wood Wheel ...................................... 30.54 *
472 - Console ............................................. 52.66 *
494 - Rally Stripes ...................................... 10.53
502 - Pwr Brakes ......................................... 42.13
521 - Frt Disc Brakes ................................... 63.19
531 - SoftRay ALL ....................................... 34.76
621 - Ride & Handle....................................... 4.21
71R/72C - G77 x14 Redlines........................... n/c
754 - Frt Shoulder Belts ................................. n/c

Options Total ............................................ 1325.98


Base Price ................................................ 3101.00
Destination .................................................. ...8.75 *

TOTAL .................................................. .... 4435.73
===================================

Label Price ................................................ 4435.73

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

We've been waiting on this one for about 3 years !

This is for the Red 4speed car that PY member "weranc" bought at a Mecum 2012 auction. Formerly of the Salmon Brothers Collection
It is Car #11 on the listing

Red , Black Top , Black Interior
Ram Air II , 4 speed
Pontiac Plant
Dealer = 14 - 547 = Unknown , somewhere in Iowa (BHC state code 14)
Invoice Date = June 05, 1968
Invoice Number = 771376

SVT - Vinyl Top.....................................94.79
347 - Ram Air II..................................473.94
358 - M21 Muncie 4spd........................184.31
361 - STT HD Posi..................................63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle....................................... n/c
382 - AM Radio......................................61.09
394 - Stereo 8track Tape.......................133.76
412 - Door Edge Guards ..........................6.24
422 - Visor Mirror L&R ............................ 4.21
434 - Hood Tach.....................................63.19 (5500 Redline)
453 - Rally 2 wheels...............................84.26
475 =
471 - Wood Wheel .................................30.54
474 - Clock............................................. . n/c
486 =
482 - Rally Gauges & Clock .....................50.55
484 - Exhaust Tips .................................21.06
507 =
501 - Pwr Steer.......................................94.79
502 - Pwr Brakes.....................................42.13
504 - Tilt Steer Column............................42.13
531- SoftRay ALL.....................................34.76
564 - Pwr Seat LH....................................69.51
633 =
631 - Front Mats........................................6.85
632 - Rear Mats.........................................6.32
71R/72C - G77x14 Redlines.........................n/c
754 - Shoulder Belts.................................. n/c
==============================
Options Total........................................1567. 62

Base Price............................................3 101.00
Destination....................................... ...... 74.75
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL .................................................4 743.37
================================

Label Price............................................4 743.37