[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Diego

I don't know if any of you are interested in following this discussion on an Olds site. I was quite surprised to see how few understood the value (not financial) of a Judge.

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...nvertible.html

Diego, not trying to start any chit or anything but I have always thought The Judge to be an aperance package more than anything. As a kid I thought it was nothing more than a wild color, most the time, stripes and a rear spoiler. You could get everything else on a GTO.
My thoughts are the same now as they were when I was 17 on this, I would rather have a RAIV GTO than a RAIV Judge. Well of course unless I was in it purely for monitary value.
And the debate of weather the Judge that stated this thread is worth 50k I say hell yes it is and the sale proves it! Very simple supply and demand.
Just an opinion from someone who has loved GTO's...... and Judges for most of his life.

[brians]

Congrats - Hope it goes to a great home.

Now put one of those project H/O's up. I may be a bidder on one of those.

[Steve Hoog]

We keep talking about his Judges and these HO's, I wonder what kind of interest his Round Port Gen 2 F's are going to get.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoog

We keep talking about his Judges and these HO's, I wonder what kind of interest his Round Port Gen 2 F's are going to get.

Gary is putting a few of those on eBay??? DAMN!

[Steve Hoog]

He is in that mode, we'll just have to see how long it last.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

Diego, not trying to start any chit or anything but I have always thought The Judge to be an aperance package more than anything. As a kid I thought it was nothing more than a wild color, most the time, stripes and a rear spoiler. You could get everything else on a GTO.
My thoughts are the same now as they were when I was 17 on this, I would rather have a RAIV GTO than a RAIV Judge. Well of course unless I was in it purely for monitary value.
And the debate of weather the Judge that stated this thread is worth 50k I say hell yes it is and the sale proves it! Very simple supply and demand.
Just an opinion from someone who has loved GTO's...... and Judges for most of his life.

Hey, no worries at all - it's all in good fun.

But I disagree that the Judge was only an appearance package. Would you say the same thing about a Buick GSX (a GS with stripes and spoiler)? Cyclone Spoiler (a Cyclone with stripes and spoiler)? All three of these cars have different identities compared to their brethren, and the market agrees if you look at their prices.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Diego

Hey, no worries at all - it's all in good fun.

But I disagree that the Judge was only an appearance package. Would you say the same thing about a Buick GSX (a GS with stripes and spoiler)? Cyclone Spoiler (a Cyclone with stripes and spoiler)? All three of these cars have different identities compared to their brethren, and the market agrees if you look at their prices.

I have always thought of the Judge as a GTO with the Judge option. Never really thought about it much in depth or broken it down.
I do know this, the Judge is viewed by most as a different beast as you say and the proof is in the market value.

Gary, you have made a lot of entertainment with the sale of your car, thank you. I hope you had fun as well, I assume it might be bitter sweet?

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Diego

Hey, no worries at all - it's all in good fun.

But I disagree that the Judge was only an appearance package. Would you say the same thing about a Buick GSX (a GS with stripes and spoiler)? Cyclone Spoiler (a Cyclone with stripes and spoiler)? All three of these cars have different identities compared to their brethren, and the market agrees if you look at their prices.

I would not compare the Judge package to the GSX package. This big reason is that I do agree with others here that the Judge was more of an appearance package. Yes, you got the RAIII motor, but, that was it regarding anything performance related. The GSX was a complete performance package that came with gauges, hood tach, posi, heavy duty suspension, 15x7 rallys with G60x15s and a choice of 4-speed or TH400 as well as the special appearance package. The Judge was not a complete performance package. These cars came standard with no posi, no gauges, 3-speed manual, no suspension upgrade, etc. They were sort of trapped between their original intent of being a stripper low cost performer to compete with the Roadrunners, and being a specialty car. The GSX was complete as were cars like the Hurst/Olds, TAs, W30s, Challeger TAs, AAR Cudas, Boss Mustangs, Cougar Eliminators, and I am sure others. That is the difference. Without the performance options being standard, it was mostly stripes and a spoiler. The hood tach wasn't even standard. Now, don't get me wrong, I still love the Judges and would love to own one. I am just trying to be realistic about what they were.

Yes, all three cars you list above have different identities to their brethren, but, those identities are based on their visual impact, ie, their appearance package, which the Judge does have. The difference lies in the content of the rest of their special packages.

[68bird400HO]

Now, I should add a caveat to the above post. That is, most Judges were ordered with the extra performance goodies that make them complete and comparable to other specialty cars, and, that is what the market reflects. It would be interesting to see a Judge roll through Mecum with no other options to see what the market thinks of it. The debate about how an actual produced Judge, ordered with the goodies that many were, compares to other specialty cars like the GSX is a different debate, to me, than what the actual Judge option was compared to the GSX option, and others. I think that is were the difference in opinions come from.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

Now, I should add a caveat to the above post. That is, most Judges were ordered with the extra performance goodies that make them complete and comparable to other specialty cars, and, that is what the market reflects. It would be interesting to see a Judge roll through Mecum with no other options to see what the market thinks of it. The debate about how an actual produced Judge, ordered with the goodies that many were, compares to other specialty cars like the GSX is a different debate, to me, than what the actual Judge option was compared to the GSX option, and others. I think that is were the difference in opinions come from.

A plain Jane Judge would obviously still command a premium. It's still a Judge. Point in hand, is not the op car a bench seat column car? If "just" a GTO it would have affexted the sale price in a negative way I believe, not so much with a Judge or better yet a convertable Judge.

[Steve Hoog]

Like this one?

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoog

Like this one?

Funny Steve, NO not that one!

[1969 Ram Air]

At least he got parchment interior. That will jazz up a no-option Judge.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

I would not compare the Judge package to the GSX package. This big reason is that I do agree with others here that the Judge was more of an appearance package. Yes, you got the RAIII motor, but, that was it regarding anything performance related. The GSX was a complete performance package that came with gauges, hood tach, posi, heavy duty suspension, 15x7 rallys with G60x15s and a choice of 4-speed or TH400 as well as the special appearance package.

If there was not Judge, there likely wouldn't be a GSX. I think the actual standard content is irrelevant - I think both cars rely on image more than anything else.

The GSX was complete as were cars like the Hurst/Olds, TAs, W30s, Challeger TAs, AAR Cudas, Boss Mustangs, Cougar Eliminators, and I am sure others.

I am unsure how Boss 302s, and Cougar Eliminators could be considered complete since they all didn't come with limited slip standard. Even Hemis had Sure-grip optional.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by Diego

If there was not Judge, there likely wouldn't be a GSX. I think the actual standard content is irrelevant - I think both cars rely on image more than anything else.





I am unsure how Boss 302s, and Cougar Eliminators could be considered complete since they all didn't come with limited slip standard. Even Hemis had Sure-grip optional.

judges didnt come standard with posi, limited slip either

[Diego]

No one made that claim.

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoog

Like this one?

Here is the PHS from my brothers' Judge. Only 1 option (besides THE JUDGE)

http://

[Steve Hoog]

68pongto, so your brother's car has a radio delete plate?

[Steve Hoog]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

Wow, didn't realize I was closer to being a buyer than a tryer at 48k!

So you were straight up in at 48K?

[68bird400HO]

[QUOTE=Diego;4804267]If there was not Judge, there likely wouldn't be a GSX. I think the actual standard content is irrelevant - I think both cars rely on image more than anything else.[Quote]

And I can agree that a Judge is definitely an iconic car. I am just being objective about the fact that it is more or less an appearance package option for a GTO. I think your frustration with the Olds boys had to do with each side arguing two different points. The debate over what was the Judge package, objectively, and was it iconic are two completely different discussions. I can also agree that it may have been the car that ignited the specialty car package craze for those few years unless you want to give any credit to the 68 Hurst Olds.