[Formulabruce]

Steve KATZ makes a magnetic heater you can put on your oil pan quickly and remove quickly, many parts stores carry them, keeps my 455 toasty all winter long!
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/se...0653/C0076.oap

[Brad Pringle]

Wow i am going to get a couple of those. Great idea.

[njsteve]

I hooked up both a cannister coolant heater and the magnetic oil pan heater. The engine was at 180 degrees. Still no start.

I had my old time mechanic buddy come over and troubleshoot tonight. We backed off on the rocker arm adjustment, just in case they were too tight. No luck.

Things we learned:
1) Only getting 130 PSI on a compression test.
2) Engine cranks slow with the spark plugs in. It cranks really fast with the plugs removed.
3) No vacuum into the engine. You put your hands over the carb and there is no suction when you crank the engine over. In fact gas pops out of the top of the carb.
4) We pulled the carb and cranked the engine and there is still no suction into the engine.
5) The balancer timing mark matches TDC on cylinder #1.
6) The distributor is set correctly to TDC on cylinder # 1.
7) Intake manifold is sealed up tight with no gaps.
8) Cylinders 1,3,5 and 7 have carbon fouled plugs. 2,4,6 and 8 look much cleaner.
9) Full 12 volts to the HEI unit with the key in the run position. Around 9 volts when cranking due to starter load.
10) Pulled starter today and had it tested - OK.


Possibilities:
1) Timing chain installed incorrectly (even though I rechecked the marks on the crank and timing gear several times before sealing the timing cover.)
2) The Edelbrock (Cloyes) timing set had the indicator marks mis-stamped.
3) The Melling SP-7 Camshaft ground wrong.

Any other suggestions?

[Held for Ransom]

Were both marks pointing up on the timing gears?

[njsteve]

Crank at 12, cam at six. And when you rotated it 180 degrees, both were at 12.

Time to pull the timing cover, i guess.

At least i have the old gear set which worked fine, to compare it to.

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by njsteve

I hooked up both a cannister coolant heater and the magnetic oil pan heater. The engine was at 180 degrees. Still no start.

I had my old time mechanic buddy come over and troubleshoot tonight. We backed off on the rocker arm adjustment, just in case they were too tight. No luck.

Things we learned:
1) Only getting 130 PSI on a compression test.
2) Engine cranks slow with the spark plugs in. It cranks really fast with the plugs removed.
3) No vacuum into the engine. You put your hands over the carb and there is no suction when you crank the engine over. In fact gas pops out of the top of the carb.
4) We pulled the carb and cranked the engine and there is still no suction into the engine.
5) The balancer timing mark matches TDC on cylinder #1.
6) The distributor is set correctly to TDC on cylinder # 1.
7) Intake manifold is sealed up tight with no gaps.
8) Cylinders 1,3,5 and 7 have carbon fouled plugs. 2,4,6 and 8 look much cleaner.
9) Full 12 volts to the HEI unit with the key in the run position. Around 9 volts when cranking due to starter load.
10) Pulled starter today and had it tested - OK.


Possibilities:
1) Timing chain installed incorrectly (even though I rechecked the marks on the crank and


timing gear several times before sealing the timing cover.)


2) The Edelbrock (Cloyes) timing set had the indicator marks mis-stamped.
3) The Melling SP-7 Camshaft ground wrong.

Any other suggestions?

That sounds like a bummer. Last year we had to pull the motor out of my freshly restored judge because of a coolant leak at a head gasket. Pulled the motor and realized the Engine builder forgot to tighten the head bolts. Last motor he has done for me. Anyways it sucks to pull a motor out after you have detailed it and put all the parts on. I now have all my motor dynoed and broken in before they go in a car. Local guy charges me 400 per motor and it's the best money I have ever spent. You never know what can go wrong. Good luck with it.

[Held for Ransom]

I can't "see" why you're not feeling some kind of suction from intake side.
Did you "just try" putting the dist. 180 out?

[njsteve]

Oh yeah. Tried the distributor both ways, several times.

We also used one of those "whistles" that goes in place of the spark plug to verify that #1 was at TDC, and not #6.

It's a conundrum!

[njsteve]

Is there anyone nearby here in Jersey who can degree a cam in the car with the heads on? Im happy to pay for your time/expertise.

[3tas4me]

The fact that you have low compression on your cranking test and not making any vacuum strongly suggests a problem with the cam or the piston/rings.

[njsteve]

The ring gaps were checked and all within spec. Gotta be the cam that is out of time. I will be pulling things off the engine today and tomorrow to see what the timing chain/cam looks like. Not a fun weekend.

[Lloyd-TX]

Yep, it sucks Steve. Sorry about your bad luck. Sure sounds like the camshaft timing is off to me.

Did you use one of those multiple keyway, 9-position double roller timing sets? VERY confusing to say the least.

20/20 hindsight - but it DOES indeed pay to degree the cam in . . .

[njsteve]

It was an Edelbrock (Cloyes) double roller set with a three keyway gear.

[njsteve]

I ordered up a degree wheel kit. Should be here tomorrow. Rocky Rotella gave me a tip on converting an old hydraulic lifter to solid form so I can use it for the degreeing process.

THANKS ROCKY

[OVERULD]

At the risk of asking a dumb question..you did remember to remove the protective tape from the intake before setting the carb in place? Almost sounds like you have something foreign in the intake blocking the engine from breathing. I'm streching 'cause I can't think of anything else you haven't already covered. Good luck with it, I know it's gotta be frustrating.

BJ

[njsteve]

Never a dumb question. My mechanic buddy had that happen to him once. And yes we pulled the carb and no blockage anywhere.

[Formulabruce]

Usually if the cam is 360 out when #1 is up top, you can do the dist trick to get the firing on the correct stroke. With no spark at all, the engine is an air pump ( have built them for compressors before)
The "middle" key way position should be pretty close timing and the rest should be had with the dist. , for a driver. The Cam you picked, like ALL Pontiac cams is Dual pattern, and should be a perfect choice
Before you go crazy, once the Timing cover is off, I would pull plugs and turn over motor by hand and make sure the gear dots line up every OTHER time, for 4 full strokes ( rotations of the engine) If its NOT off, the cam is so far off its a wall hangar, If its off, well time to reset the gears, move cam, so the 3rd stroke is TDC ( combustion).I have had this problem once before, its been a while though
Now I always cycle the engine through all 4 strokes and check the gear dots.
Wishing you a quick, and easy fix Steve

[njsteve]

Wait a minute...if it's 360 out, it would be in, wouldn't it? :-)

Reminds me of the bank robber who, while trying to escape told his getaway driver: "Do a 360 and get the hell out of here!"

He ran right into the responding police cars.

I will update you all tomorrow when I get the timing cover off and start degreeing.

[Formulabruce]

360 X 4 strokes. is the way I look at it. The valve dynamics are just out of sync. IM sure it isnt a big deal.. youll be fine soon

[Norwood]

From what I have read here I would degree the cam and replace that timing chain set with one like Pontiac installed