[Formulabruce]

nah he drank it with REAL cream and REAL sugar...
was able to work at the same dealership with him for a couple years, was an honor

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by njsteve

BTW, if anyone is interested in the old pistons and rods out of this engine here are the links.

They make great Christmas gifts!

Or Chanukah gifts - one for each night!

Call now operators are standing by!

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=715958

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=715961

BTW, both the pistons and the rods are sold. Thanks PY!

I did just list a couple of Crane cams (one is from this engine) and a stock set of 455HO rods in the parts for sale section.

[Formulabruce]

Here>>> Armasteel Rods
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=716890
Here> Crane camshaft >
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=716879

[njsteve]

And here's the cam from the 455HO, the other cam was in Gramma's Firebird Esprit.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=716885

[njsteve]

Got the heat riser hoses installed for the Ram Air air cleaner. Thanks to "PB" who sent me the correct beveled plastic elbows and original clamps, as well as the heat stove base plate and 90 degree steel elbow. I got the corrugated hoses from Performance Years for $6 each.

This is sure one Rube-Goldberg contraption once all those hoses are hooked up. No wonder everyone who had one of these cars ripped them out and tossed them in the garbage. It takes two people to remove or install the air cleaner now.

I also discovered that if you don't have the correct "thick" 1/4" carb to intake gasket, the air cleaner heat riser elbow on the drivers side will jam up against the valve cover and will hold up that side up, off the carb.

[Held for Ransom]

I was actually going to suggest if you had the correct carb gasket in the other thread. It's still a close fit.

[njsteve]

Thanks for the second opinion. Sometimes the obvious stuff escapes me. :-)

[njsteve]

BTW, Here is a tip for the squeeling belt syndrome that Pontiacs have. These cars are very sensitive to belt thickness. If they are running multiple belts on the crank and water pump pulleys, the parallel running belts must all be of the same width or else they will scream at high RPMs.

The problem is due to the fact that they are trying to fight each other for traction while turning the same distance of water pump pulley at the same time. Because the thinner belt is sitting lower in the groove than the thicker belt, the thinner one is technically a longer belt by a few millemeters over the same distance of pulley groove.

Unfortunately, most manufacturers have gone to narrower belts for the old cars. I just bought two new belts for the Formula and had to search a while on rockauto.com for a matching set from Goodyear. Rockauto actually lists the widths for each belt, and they were cheap - around $10 total with shipping. The Goodyears were .44 width which is a little bit more than 14/32. The Gates and Delco belts were .4063 (13/32 width). Napa were the worst - they were around 12/32.

Here is the photo after the new same width belts were installed. As you can see, the inner, alternator belt only rides on about 3 inches of the water pump pully - just enough to create the scream if it is a different width. The power steering belt is what really operates the water pump pulley.



Compare that with this photo (courtesy of Steve Hoog) showing two different thickness belts on the water pump pully.

[PB]

I posted this in your other thread Steve:


Steve, I see exactly whats going on...that tower clamp needs to be rotated toward the middle of the engine. If you look on the under side of the air cleaner, there are grooves that go around the openings. The grooves are beveled outward. There is a section that is open, allowing that tower clamp to clear the grooves. The clamp is on that groove, not allowing it to sit flush underneath. When you turn over the air cleaner, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. The tower clamp should be orientated just like the pass side.

[njsteve]

I actually tried that first. The only groove is actually facing forward toward the radiator. The rear area is blocked by the Thermac mounting flap. When you have the clamp facing forward, the clamp bolt touches the radiator hose, with no change is air cleaner height.

Heres the underside photos from a couple months ago.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...695444&page=27

Ill do some more finagling tomorrow and update as I go along.

[165th]

Man that is one nicely detailed engine compartment! Great work Steve.

[njsteve]

You know, the work is never done!

[njsteve]

Heres my original owner photo from the 1980s

[PB]

"This is sure one Rube-Goldberg contraption once all those hoses are hooked up. No wonder everyone who had one of these cars ripped them out and tossed them in the garbage. It takes two people to remove or install the air cleaner now."


No lie!! AND there's supposed to be a clamp on the both hoses too! One on the crossover elbow and one on the drivers preheater shroud. The hoses are literally screwed onto the air cleaner elbows. So just how are we supposed to remove the air cleaner?!! Lol. I'm guessing with the clamp on the crossover elbow, you were to loosen the set screw and pull the elbow off the stove base with the air cleaner assembly. Ridiculousness.

[njsteve]

It must have been another of their diabolical emissions anti-tampering efforts, just like the preset idle mixture screws and plastic caps!

[Bentwheelbob]

Steve,

Fabulous thread and incredible car. I can't believe how quickly you have gone through the engine, installed it and detailed everything underhood so well. I think even Loffen would be shaking his head. I can't imagine what you could do if you had heat and less grease on your floor. I don't know how I missed this thread for so long.

Thanks for the tip on the intake gasket. I was not aware this gasket was not available.

Here is something some of you Round Port guys might be interested in. Since no one makes the unique 1972-only intake gasket that has the small square heat riser port for the 7F6 cylinder heads, I had to improvise a little.

I ended up using the Felpro 90123 (RAIV, 1971 455HO,1973/4 SD455) large port intake gasket for the intake runner sections and then sectioned in the heat riser portion from the Felpro 90205 1972 455 D-port head intake gasket.

I just ordered the MRG-503 gasket from Butler and thought I was home free. Oh well.

A couple of other questions:

1) The clip that holds the wire for the drivers side temp switch is snapped into a bracket fastened on the valve covers. PB showed this on his web site also. Is this bracket repo'd? A close up picture would be appreciated.

2) Are both the temp switches (driver and passenger side) the same part number?

3) Can you provide the part numbers on the belts you used? I would be most appreciative.

Congrats again on a great car and thread. I'm glad you provided the link.

[njsteve]

The wiring clip brackets are reproduced. There are seperate left and right side ones. Our host, PY has them. Part #RPE234. Youll need two pairs.

The two temp senders are completely different units. The single prong drivers side piece is the sender for the gauge. The passenger side rear unit is for the ECS emissions system and has three prongs. Maybe someone can chime in on the part numbers. But a word of caution, the modern Delco single prong sender is calibrated wrong and will show your car to be runnng 20 degrees hotter than it actually is. Here's some helpful links on prior discussions:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=Temp+sender

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=Temp+sender

My car has the fixed position 80 amp alternator, so my part numbers wont correspond to a car with the regular adjustable alternator set up. The alt belt was 50 inches and the ps belt was 49 inches long. Go to rockauto.com and punch in your application and go from there. Do you have any belts on your car now? If you dont have belts, grab a fabric tape measure the kind "the wife" uses for measuring her waistline and wrap it around the belt route. It will give you a rough estimate. The main thing to remember is to get belts of the same width, from the same manufacturer.

BTW, if you want about 81 pages more of tips, go here for the prior 1972 project. If I recall (after 8 years of posting on it) there is a discussion and photos of the two senders in there.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...433662&page=81

[njsteve]

Did some finagling today and it fits much better.

1) I trimmed around 2 inches off the radiator end of the radiator hose. That pulled the hose bend away from the air cleaner.
2) Added the thicker carb to intake gasket. It's about 1/8" thicker than the previous one.
3) Used a couple of air cleaner to carb gaskets and used a 1/2" section of 5/8" heater hose for the top vent grommet.
4) Rotated the driver's side elbow to fully ride up against the heat riser valve. I also was able to rotate the clamp 180 degrees to fit in behind the heat riser valve.
5) I removed 2 of the 3 washers that I had under the two mounting points of the rear A/C triangle bracket, leaving only one washer to space the bracket up just enough to barely touch the valve cover.
6) I squeezed a permanent dent into the passenger side corrugated hose in the area that it passes over the unique cut out in the A/C triangle bracket.
7) The valve covers are using the correct 1/4" thick 455HO valve cover gaskets so they can clear the oil deflector cages. The regular gasket is 1/8" thick on the D-port 400, 455 engines.

Here are some photos of today's fun:

[njsteve]

Here is how it sits now, with the bevel on the valve cover.

[PB]

Looks delicious Steve! Which way did you position Norwoods bracket? Bend up? Or bend down? It looks like you have it with the bend up. I've installed mine with it down, but looking at the assembly line pic, I think it goes upward. Got a close up shot of that bracket and stove base you can post?