[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Unless someone is running the heads the way they came out of the box, what differences does it make how they come out of the box?

Stan

The Open Chamber CV-1's are faster then the same cc Edelbrock out of the box heads with a 305 cfm port/valve job clean up.

It's after this point that the discussion is ongoing as to money spend for resulted achieved.

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Actually it is a REPLACEMENT head for the old 70's RA IV heads. The CV-1's are a new High Performance concept right out of the box same as the Tiger and KRE high port concept.

So shouldn't the comparison be to those rather then the LOWLY Edelbrock heads?

I think you nailed it.

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

The Open Chamber CV-1's are faster then the same cc Edelbrock out of the box heads with a 305 cfm port/valve job clean up.

It's after this point that the discussion is ongoing as to money spend for resulted achieved.

How long did you run cv-1's before you said no mas?

[Bnick166]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

So shouldn't the comparison be to those rather then the LOWLY Edelbrock heads?

No comparisons being made, Ken
These guys wanna flap their gums about the CV-1 being out for 7 years.....yet it took the same guys nearly 17 years to achieve their results w/ the E-heads.......just sayin'

[David Holmberg]

I think changes in technology (cam spec's and valve springs) and head porting have come a long way in 17 years.

Every other brand has improved in 17 years. Top fuel is running less nitro now and still considerably quicker and faster.

Marcella took the Pro Ports and turned them into a working product in 7 months using knowledge he's learned over the years.

NASCAR, same deal. Same basic rules and horsepower and RPM considerably higher.

We all know the CV1 can do it, most are just waiting for someone to show it.

[Bnick166]

THAT'S the point I was tryin' to make. All it takes is the RIGHT person to put in the time and $$ and the results will follow. Hasn't happened for the CV-1's YET. Butler went in the 7's ten years ago?....SOOO it took somebody 8 years (1995 to 2003) to make that kind of a commitment to the E-heads before they performed at that level.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

No comparisons being made, Ken
These guys wanna flap their gums about the CV-1 being out for 7 years.....yet it took the same guys nearly 17 years to achieve their results w/ the E-heads.......just sayin'

We have not been trying to go fast with E-heads for 17 years!

[Bnick166]

Originally Posted by mike leech

I did not buy them untill 2002. improved them twice. put to sleep in 2005 fall. The first time I John m attempted porting them with a shaft rocker, .400 offset it made 883 in 2004 at 488 cu in.



YOUR POINT?

My point is you didn't buy them until 2002....but they were released in 1995. So, theoretically...the heads were out for 7 years before YOU got them to perform at that level....correct?
Conversely....it took you a very short time to make your mark w/ the pro ports. A great head shows results...and "fast" you say. Look at the time span between when the RPM's were 1st released and the time it took to put a N/A street car into the 7's.
You should have the Pro ports in the 7's this year...assumably. That makes the pro ports WAYYYY better than the RPM's..right? Just tryin' to get a handle on the logic that is being used.
They (RPM's) were out for 17 years before Jack got them to perform at the level that HE is at. I haven't followed the dates on Jeff's milestones....but it hasn't happened overnight....more like YEARS. Many years since the RPM's were released. Just tired of hearin' how the CV-1 have been out for SOOO long. Not really that long in the grand scheme of things. A few have hyped the cv-1's up and regretably...too soon. My CV-1 engine made 705 hp and I spec'd everything but the cam. I'm a truck mechanic by trade. I can weld, paint, wire and just about anything else when I put my mind to it. I'm not an engine building specialist by any means....but 700 hp on pump gas is fine by me...for now.

[Bnick166]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

We have not been trying to go fast with E-heads for 17 years!

I thought you were the first N/A street car in the 7's. Did you or somebody else build a 7 second N/A car using another head prior to you doing it?.....
Seems it took 17 years for SOMEBODY to do it....

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

You did it MUCH faster than Jack or Jeff.
So....you haven't looked at the CV-1's?
You can't make them fast as well?

I think I could make them fast. As is, that means nothing relocated such as valve guides.
Not record setting but way better than we have seen.

Now if the handcuffs come off and I can slice and dice that bitch and move everything to where I think it needs to be. We will be better than everything ,but maybe not the Warp 6.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

My point is you didn't buy them until 2002....but they were released in 1995. So, theoretically...the heads were out for 7 years before YOU got them to perform at that level....correct?
Conversely....it took you a very short time to make your mark w/ the pro ports. A great head shows results...and "fast" you say. Look at the time span between when the RPM's were 1st released and the time it took to put a N/A street car into the 7's.
You should have the Pro ports in the 7's this year...assumably. That makes the pro ports WAYYYY better than the RPM's..right? Just tryin' to get a handle on the logic that is being used.
They (RPM's) were out for 17 years before Jack got them to perform at the level that HE is at. I haven't followed the dates on Jeff's milestones....but it hasn't happened overnight....more like YEARS. Many years since the RPM's were released. Just tired of hearin' how the CV-1 have been out for SOOO long. Not really that long in the grand scheme of things. A few have hyped the cv-1's up and regretably...too soon. My CV-1 engine made 705 hp and I spec'd everything but the cam. I'm a truck mechanic by trade. I can weld, paint, wire and just about anything else when I put my mind to it. I'm not an engine building specialist by any means....but 700 hp on pump gas is fine by me...for now.

Sigh...Face palm...throw up in my mouth a little. YOU are trying way to hard to justify the difference in performance by assigning a time frame? Look, if i had those heads they woulda either belted out some real power, got fixed so they did or sold. PERIOD,and all in less than 2 years. So you think if we give everybody with cv1s "more time" they will catch up? I promise you that has nothing to do with it.
So i should go ahead and be impressed in advance and just wait till i finally get beat in a heads up race by them. Of course over this waiting period i wont get faster though...right?

You're living the CV1 dream......no need to wake up.

All this aside I will go on record and say that I am sure I could bust 1000 hp with them. First try...guaranteed. I'll be yawning with a great big sticker waiting for the CV royalty to arrive so I can present it to them.

I'd actually like it gone so I'll lower the bar and just "give it" to any cv car with the stones to line up win or lose. That should be attainable....right?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Actually it is a REPLACEMENT head for the old 70's RA IV heads. Cost for cast iron RAIV's was exceeding $2000 back used then and Edelbrock saw a market for their $1400 ALUMINUM heads at that time.
Getting over 400cfm out of a 40 year old replacement design now is awesome. The CV-1's are a new High Performance concept right out of the box same as the Tiger and KRE high port concept.

So shouldn't the comparison be to those rather then the LOWLY Edelbrock heads?

They should compare better than a typical Butler wideport that was common around 2008. Maybe you been out of the loop or maybe too much bad goin on for you Ken... Heres a fair dyno comparison of CV1 vs Wideport... http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=729980 Track testing is planned for later this year unless Dick has a surprise for all of us at Norwalk. My hunch is Dicks track testing will back up the dyno tests...

IIRC the CV1 was intended to be an alternative to a wideport E head. It pretty much was starting where the wideport was starting to level out and harder to get gains.

With your hydraulic roller cam testing.... I dont think typical out of box Butler type wideport available then would have done any better than your cv1 tests... You went with lesser flowing heads better suited to your cam preference and picked up... obviously combo matters. We have learned alot more since then havent we?

Charlie Sikes screwed you Ken. NOT Jim or Bill or Calvin. Had Charlie been capable of delivering you a head close to his broken promise, things would have gone much better for you. By screwing you Charlie screwed the cv program.
Personally I think its long overdue for you and Jim to reset your situation somehow.

You both got screwed in that deal and need to remind yourself who's eye you should be pokin' .


PS hope you and Karen are getting ahead of the health setbacks.

[john marcella]

I got a test for ya, RACE ME !

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by john marcella

I got a test for ya, RACE ME !

OK, I am game. But at my age no more than a 40 yard dash.

Stan

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

OK, I am game. But at my age no more than a 40 yard dash.

Stan

I smoke, don't know if I will make the 40

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by john marcella

I got a test for ya, RACE ME !

if your talkin to me F U. You should be embarrassed i'm this close, albeit still not nearly close enough. whats a 10mph difference? course if we got the weight a little closer....id have a better chance...still not there though.

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by mike leech

if your talkin to me F U. You should be embarrassed i'm this close, albeit still not nearly close enough. whats a 10mph difference? course if we got the weight a little closer....id have a better chance...still not there though.

No, you arrogant dick, I was not talking to you But tell me how you really feal.LOL

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Sigh...Face palm...throw up in my mouth a little. YOU are trying way to hard to justify the difference in performance by assigning a time frame? Look, if i had those heads they woulda either belted out some real power, got fixed so they did or sold. PERIOD,and all in less than 2 years. So you think if we give everybody with cv1s "more time" they will catch up? I promise you that has nothing to do with it.
So i should go ahead and be impressed in advance and just wait till i finally get beat in a heads up race by them. Of course over this waiting period i wont get faster though...right?

You're living the CV1 dream......no need to wake up.

All this aside I will go on record and say that I am sure I could bust 1000 hp with them. First try...guaranteed. I'll be yawning with a great big sticker waiting for the CV royalty to arrive so I can present it to them.

I'd actually like it gone so I'll lower the bar and just "give it" to any cv car with the stones to line up win or lose. That should be attainable....right?

How are you going to make a 1000 HP with CV1s when you cant even do it with E-heads?

[7T2]

Originally Posted by john marcella

I smoke, don't know if I will make the 40

you need to quit smoking-

if youre gonna be my mom and point out what I do wrong all the time, then im gonna be yours, bitch

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by 7T2

you need to quit smoking-

if youre gonna be my mom and point out what I do wrong all the time, then im gonna be yours, bitch

THATWASAWESOME!