[red1975pacer]

OK folks, My car did not place in 1993-02 Trans Am at Norwalk. The reason PROBABLY was the fact did I wasnt able to change out my cracked door panel, or get my car up on a lift to better detail the underside. I noticed the judges checking out these areas, and Ill make sure to adress these areas for next year. That being said, the cars that won were very heavly coated in Armor All. And I mean heavy, heavy coated. Now I know Corvette Judges frown upon these "techniques", what about the Pontiac judges? Certainly opinions must be out there.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

OK folks, My car did not place in 1993-02 Trans Am at Norwalk. The reason PROBABLY was the fact did I wasnt able to change out my cracked door panel, or get my car up on a lift to better detail the underside. I noticed the judges checking out these areas, and Ill make sure to adress these areas for next year. That being said, the cars that won were very heavly coated in Armor All. And I mean heavy, heavy coated. Now I know Corvette Judges frown upon these "techniques", what about the Pontiac judges? Certainly opinions must be out there.

I wouldn't use any of that in the interior. I like the natural sheen to the clean plastic. I do use some tire dressing on the rubber hoses and such under the hood. I also spray some in the fender wells to make them look black and temporarily hid the dirt a cant wash off.

Key to winning? Not sure. My 98 missed the boat too this weekend and it was standing as tall as it could.

[red1975pacer]

Mr Old Blue which one was yours? mine was the red with black 2000 Conv. What day were you there? My buddy had a 1999 30th anerversery with 2700 miles on Sunday. I was there on Sat. Nice Nice cars on Sat, I told a few buddys who went their that it almost seemed like a Vette style show with the amount of nice cars present. Whats next, trailoring them in?

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

Mr Old Blue which one was yours? mine was the red with black 2000 Conv. What day were you there? My buddy had a 1999 30th anerversery with 2700 miles on Sunday. I was there on Sat. Nice Nice cars on Sat, I told a few buddys who went their that it almost seemed like a Vette style show with the amount of nice cars present. Whats next, trailoring them in?

This was mine parked on the east end of the field on Sunday. If you rolled in on Saturday, it was parked right on the corner of the entrance to the grass where you enter the grass field.. Another WS6 vert parked next to it. I think it was silver.

I remember seeing you drive in on Saturday.

[red1975pacer]

Am I stretching it by say'n "It was a Vette style show"? I guess you can say you witnessed my car being "driven in".

[TA-71]

I have judged many shows over the years, and just me personally. I dont care for a heavy dose of armor all on any part of the car. IMO it usually means someone is trying to hide something. A clean well prepped car would always get higher marks. When I run an event there is always a judges meeting where we go over a car as a group, we talk about what to look for and what to score. The idea is to be more consistent across the board. Sadly it doesnt always work.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

Am I stretching it by say'n "It was a Vette style show"? I guess you can say you witnessed my car being "driven in".

I would assume "Vette" style show would mean that most trailer their cars. I think on Saturday the percentage of trailored cars was very very small. Sunday id guess the percentage was slightly higher but not very high. This show is for everyone.

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

Mr Old Blue which one was yours? mine was the red with black 2000 Conv. What day were you there? My buddy had a 1999 30th anerversery with 2700 miles on Sunday. I was there on Sat. Nice Nice cars on Sat, I told a few buddys who went their that it almost seemed like a Vette style show with the amount of nice cars present. Whats next, trailoring them in?

My SOM car get "Best Trans Am" there a couple years ago...it doesn't go anywhere unless its inside an enclosed trailer...is there something wrong with that? Do the guys running serious drag cars drive them to the track...its the same thing.

[red1975pacer]

No worries, I trailer my 75 AMC Pacer all the time. Sunset Orange seems to be the rarest of the rare . Hardly ever see it

[TTOP350]

I drive my cars everywhere, I've even left the bugs on the front for many shows because I don't care about a 5.00$ trophy. I know how much money, time I have in my car and I don't need anyone pointing out what all I know or don't know is wrong with it. (I'll gladly pay the fee to support the show but ask not to be judged most of the time)
I'd rather hang out, share ideas and meet/ talk to people that love these cars as much as I do.

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by TTOP350

I drive my cars everywhere, I've even left the bugs on the front for many shows because I don't care about a 5.00$ trophy. I know how much money, time I have in my car and I don't need anyone pointing out what all I know or don't know is wrong with it. (I'll gladly pay the fee to support the show but ask not to be judged most of the time)
I'd rather hang out, share ideas and meet/ talk to people that love these cars as much as I do.

Yet it's the people with your attitude (not you particularly) that always complain about loosing to "trailer queens" (mine is actually a trailer diva) at the shows. Or complain about how it's not fair to judge the undercarriage because you drive yours...yet you have never cleaned it one time since it was new. My favorite gripe is about how it's not fair because I have so much money in mine...it's just silly. I guess we should set it up like bracket racing...maybe give extra points for driving the car to the show, extra points because you can't afoard to spend $100k on yours and so on.

And it's not about the $5 trophy itself...it's about the recognition of having built the best.

[red1975pacer]

nobody I know has "built a 4th generation TA into a Show winner," as RAMSST suggests. With a newer cars it seems to be more along the lines of preseving a low mileage car,in proper Controlled enviornments, carefully transfering them to shows either driving {like my 2000 WS6} or trailored like my 75 Pacer. Ive taken trophys at Norwalk With my 68 GTO{High Performance cover car June 2007} The GTO class isnt exactly a "walk in the park" at Norwalk style shows. O Ya , by the way my GTO was driving in to Norwalk. Neither way is right or wrong, just a matter of preference. Were all family here remember! TTOP350 comments about not caring about "bugs in the grill" seems perfectly suited for this particuler thread. His comments belong right here along with everyones else. Were all having fun here, right.

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

nobody I know has "built a 4th generation TA into a Show winner," as RAMSST suggests.

Obviously you don't "know" my SOM WS6 then. It's gotten 38
Best of shows...been in 14 magazines including a 5 page feature in HPP...took best modified Pontiac 64 and up 4 years in a row at the POCI conv, LS1.com car of the Year...and I could go on and on. And trust me it's been built from the ground up....and it's not just pretty.

[red1975pacer]

MrRAMSST, I did NOT realise your car was modified. How bout a few pictures for we can all check it out

[TTOP350]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

Yet it's the people with your attitude (not you particularly) that always complain about loosing to "trailer queens" (mine is actually a trailer diva) at the shows. Or complain about how it's not fair to judge the undercarriage because you drive yours...yet you have never cleaned it one time since it was new. My favorite gripe is about how it's not fair because I have so much money in mine...it's just silly. I guess we should set it up like bracket racing...maybe give extra points for driving the car to the show, extra points because you can't afoard to spend $100k on yours and so on.

And it's not about the $5 trophy itself...it's about the recognition of having built the best.

I do understand about building a great car (been doing it for 30plus yrs!) but my attitude over the years has changed from wanting to build a perfect car too, I want to drive that puppy and see what she'll do!
I have won a 2nd at the T/A nats in heavy mod 3rdgen a few years back.
I lost to a guy that trailered his GTA and putted it into position. Am I upset? heck no, his car is super low miles show car with loads of chrome under the hood! Looked great!
My car i'm talking about is a 240,000 mile factory undercoat car covered with lube from a nasty trans explosion and it has gone 200mph plus many times!
I guess its more fun for me to drive it an drive it hard than to clean them till the paint wears off.. lol
Here is a pic of one of my "drivers" that got the 2nd place.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

My SOM car get "Best Trans Am" there a couple years ago...it doesn't go anywhere unless its inside an enclosed trailer...is there something wrong with that? Do the guys running serious drag cars drive them to the track...its the same thing.

One of the guys in street class who survived through the 5th round (final 15 of over 200 cars) towed his pop-up camper with his race car to the track.

I had my 43,000 mile 79 Formula at Norwalk a couple years ago and put it on the field to get judged. It was 100% original with only GM parts on it but was in driver/survivor condition - it got flogged by the judges. FWIW

It didn't look that bad to me - here it is again, just went through e-bay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-...orcev4exp=true

[red1975pacer]

Modified cars are built. Original cars are preserved. I have never seen anyone build an original car,. Just to clarify. I have seen people "build 4th generation TA's, usually modified to owners personal taste. AND Ive seen some really nice ones over the years

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

Modified cars are built. Original cars are preserved. I have never seen anyone build an original car,. Just to clarify. I have seen people "build 4th generation TA's, usually modified to owners personal taste. AND Ive seen some really nice ones over the years

You've never seen someone build a 66 GTO to original specs?

[red1975pacer]

The old saying, "There only original once". Ive seen plenty of people "Restore them to original specs".

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

The old saying, "There only original once". Ive seen plenty of people "Restore them to original specs".

I guess you could claim that someone might not be able to build an original car physically because an original car might mean the exact parts that the car came with but many people hunt down and pay big bucks for original parts as we all know.

My quote was asking for definition of original I guess.