[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by goatless

And if you can't tell if your tags have been tampered with, getting the PHS helps how?

My X-ray vision that helps me view the rivets under the dash sometimes goes down, and of course there is that occasional pesky seller who once in a while won't let me tear the dash pad off, or strip the front end and heater core down to read the hidden VINS. Damn them.

Wow, I never met a bunch of anti-PHS guys all in one place. You should be so lucky to be into Chevrolet SS cars! More of exist them now then in 1972!

I tell you what- If you can't beat em', then join em!

DON'T BOTHER GETTING THE PHS. Or if you get it, just buy it AFTER you buy the car!

[goatless]

Relax man! I am not "anti- PHS", but I don't believe you need to get it for every Pontiac you ever buy. :roll eyes: If I'm buying something that is presented as rare or low milage and correct then it is a no brainer.

In the example you're shouting about above, having PHS still will not jump out and tell you your car has been tampered with. Like I said, if you can't tell it's been tampered with before you get the PHS you probably won't after you have it either. I've seen legit cars that have had color changes, interior changes, A/C added, A/C deleted, switched to 4 speed, switched to auto, etc., etc. All PHS will tell you is what came with your VIN.

[goatless]

On the end of the PHS discussion is this little anecdote- I guy I know (a noted Pontiac collector) was looking for a first gen Firebird convertible for his daughter. He came across one listed close to him. He went to buy it, and since he's a big Pontiac collector he called Jim Mattison to get the PHS. Jim called him back and said "Buy the car! It doesn't matter what he's asking, buy it!" It turned out to be a 1 of 6 RAII Firebird convertible. He never would have known if he didn't get the PHS.

[GPMESQ]

Originally Posted by Unclesamscandy

Don't change the paint- you will be glad you left it as is. The Expresso Brown is an authenticity that you will not replace with retail red. Take it from a guy who made that mistake...You will get 100 times more "thumbs up" then when driving the ubuiquitous red sports car or whatever "popular" color is currently "in."...It will look like a REAL GTO from the 60s

+1. Great 60s color and stunning with the white top and interior. If you buy it leave it OEM color...the world has enough black, red and orange GTOs....

If the car checks out and is a well maintained (i.e - no shoddy repairs in past or significant rust) 46K mile car that has original powertrain and just needs paint, with little to no body work, I think the asking price is where it should be...I would offer 22,500 with 24K being my target. That car should be 30-35K car all day long with fresh paint.

[hobi]

Paint is personal paint it whatever color turns you on its a lot of work to paint them nice the first time now what about if you have to paint again because you picked the wrong color REMEMBER THEY WERE ALL BARE METAL TO START

[paint guy]

hobi nails it!

[Diego]

Of course, they were all GTOs to start - whether you make it a Judge is up to you.

[Unclesamscandy]

To revive the debate on PHS and if we "need" one when buying a "242" GTO car- someone (Tom) bought a 68 ragtop GTO from Craig's List. Everyone here was mocking it for being a rusted out wreck on another thread, but one guy was running the PHS... and he found it was a RA II ragtop. He bought the car when others didn't want to pop on the $80 bucks.

This guy continuously turns up Judges, HO cars, RA cars when others think they know enough by seeing a "242"... and pass them by- so you tell me what a rip off the PHS is and what a waste of time it is.

I rest my case.

[1969 Ram Air]

Tom bought a RAI convertible.

[red1975pacer]

When buying a incomplete car PHS is very useful unless your spending 1500 or less like Tom did. For 1500 {or less} Tom was probably gonna buy that car without the PHS anyway. Nice score, but Tom has alot of work to do on that one. Lets not forget that Tom stated in the other thread that the seller was wrong about the gearing, which threw people off. The seller claimed 355 when the reality was 433 {or close]. Give Tom credit, for checking it out more then anyone else.

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

When buying a incomplete car PHS is very useful unless your spending 1500 or less like Tom did. For 1500 {or less} Tom was probably gonna buy that car without the PHS anyway. Nice score, but Tom has alot of work to do on that one. Lets not forget that Tom stated in the other thread that the seller was wrong about the gearing, which threw people off. The seller claimed 355 when the reality was 433 {or close]. Give Tom credit, for checking it out more then anyone else.

Tom was not going to buy the car "anyway." He ordered the PHS and found out that that this plain '242' GTO was a RAI car and that the fellow who was selling it had no idea what it was and incorrectly advertised 3.55 posi gears. Apparently everyone else here including me (who had no interest in buying a car) decided that the car was "AS PRESENTED" which was a plain '242' car. We think we know so much and we don't always.

Like so many other cars, the diamond in the rough was found and bought b/c the PHS gave the info that could not be had anywhere else, least of which with a visual inspection. Most of us are aren't driving hours away to buy a car like that unless we arm ourselves with some info.

If you have interest in a Pontiac- If you pass on a car without the PHS, or if you buy a car without the PHS- you are being penny wise and pound foolish. But as I said- why spend $80 bucks when thousands are at stake? Because knowledge is the key to success. You are paying for knowledge.

[red1975pacer]

Not gonna argue about Tom buying the car or not, he did his homework and used resources such as experience and PHS in order to unravel what the car was. He even punched through seller gearing error with intuiation and PHS. Tom did a great job, lets just leave it at that, and be thankful that a rare car is in good hands. If I remember Tom's first couple comments, he was on the way to buy the car when he recieved notice about the PHS.Nobody is disputing the value of PHS as a way to document a rare car

[7T-GOAT]

Let me clear this up...so people can go back to work...or run a PHS

Before I new what car was, I was on my way just to see what value, if any, the car had (total sum of parts value). I ran the PHS from home to make sure it was a stick car with good colors. Then I took off to see the car. Jim from PHS called me on my cell (thanks Jim!) to tell me what it was. I would not have bought the car if it was an auto trans car. PHS is a given for me, no matter what GTO I look at. Pontiac enthusiasts are fortunate to have PHS. Other makes have no such luck proving they're authenticity, unless they have original billed sheets.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

For 1500 -or less - you wouldn't have bought a Ram1 Auto GTO Convert project with 4.33 intact and title , with tach&gauges and AM-FM radio present ?

or does that mean if it had actually been a 3.55 YS or YZ car
you wouldn't have bothered

ask TheBoss what those ZL rears will fetch

[7T-GOAT]

Thanks for correction BVZ...No, I wouldn't have bought it if it was a YS or YZ.

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

For 1500 -or less - you wouldn't have bought a Ram1 Auto GTO Convert project with 4.33 intact and title , with tach&gauges and AM-FM radio present ?

or does that mean if it had actually been a 3.55 YS or YZ car
you wouldn't have bothered

ask TheBoss what those ZL rears will fetch

Assuming this Q was for me- I was not in the market to buy a car, so I did not run the PHS. I was not actively interested in buying anything. 7T was. My $$ is all tied up so I was not shopping at all. I am simply stating that a few hundred people perused the advert and the comments were that this was a plain jane '242' ragtop project that was priced low but was rough. The only guy who is drinking champagne is the guy smart enough to understand that the PHS will tell you things you didn't know, or were too smart to want to be open minded about knowing. If I had the modicum of interest in a project or parts car and it was within 100 miles or so like 7T is- I WOULD have run the PHS. 7T's comments are correct- we are lucky to have the resource- but instead so many of us b_tch and moan or are too cheap to pay the $$. We never REALLY know what the car is or was until you get that intel. When you get the car home and find out then it is a little late to find out in general. The purchase of the PHS is of most benefit before the purchase.

... I simply believe any buyer has a POTENTIAL to benefit from the info, and 7T proved my theorem. He can buy a lot of those reports with the appreciation of his investment today.

End of my comments.

Cheers to all and especially 7T!