[dci]

Looking for idea's and suggestions on turbo size, fuel management, inter cooler or not, cubic inch, connecting rod material, camshaft, etc. I am going to build this for my double frame rail chassis car and need to make 3,000 plus HP. Any and all thought's welcome. I want to start compiling parts as soon as possible. So I might have a chance at getting it completed for next year.

Thanks,
Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[marks73ta]

So many ifs and what do you want's Don. What fuel can help decide on intercoolers. You'll need big turbos (probably 94's to 104's at least and that may be small) for 3000 hp. Fuel management again depends on what flow you'll need for the type of fuel and the lbs needed to make that power. I see most of the big guys are going to belt driven fuel pumps now versus the electric pumps. Lots to think about. Get a hold of John Geise (spelling) and Butlers to see what they have been doing and recommend. I wish I could help you more but that is well beyond my realm other than basic turbo knowledge. I really wish you well in this and will be watching with great interest in your project. Please start a build thread to help us watch you progress and all the thought and engineering that it takes to accomplish your endeavor. Mark L

[Engo]

3000 reliable hp from a Pontiac. That is gonna be though. I crew on twin turbo pro mod (511 hemi) and can tell you it takes a LOT to make it happen more than once.
Turbos: two 91mm will do it
Engine management: Holley Dominator EFI
Fuel pump: Mechanical
Fuel: Meth (forget intercooler thats for street cars)
Rods: Aluminum
Cubic inch: north of 500 (505 for a Pontiac looks good)
Ignition: COP

[dci]

I agree that making that kind of power consistently will not be an easy task. We are going to use alcohol or E85 for fuel. The thought did cross my mind about running pump fuel, but I also know that 3,000 HP would probably not be attainable with it. As for connecting rods. Is aluminum an absolute must? I do like the idea of 505 cubes. That way the stroke is not to astronomical. I was thinking possibly even smaller, maybe 4.300 bore, 4.150 stroke. I would like to keep as much meat between the cylinders as possible.



Thanks,
Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[Torment]

Originally Posted by Engo

3000 reliable hp from a Pontiac. That is gonna be though. I crew on twin turbo pro mod (511 hemi) and can tell you it takes a LOT to make it happen more than once.
Turbos: two 91mm will do it
Engine management: Holley Dominator EFI
Fuel pump: Mechanical
Fuel: Meth (forget intercooler thats for street cars)
Rods: Aluminum
Cubic inch: north of 500 (505 for a Pontiac looks good)
Ignition: COP

Agree... FAST system works pretty well too, and the MSD ProMag setups are pretty lined out.

I don't know if many would endorse a steel rod for what you describe... If the rpm remains modest you can always choose to try to blaze your own trail though.

[Tom Vaught]

Several, are making 3000+ HP with T-88 Turbos.
But you might want to talk to Travis and Rod as they presently have T-91s and we have discussed going to a T-88 Turbo as that is the largest size allowed by most racing organizations now. Brad P has the ability to run 250 mph in the quarter with T-88s (when he is not sand-bagging).

Tom Vaught

[jdw_poncho]

Solid head option?

[Elarson]

A few general thoughts from somebody who's not a turbo expert:

1) aluminum rods are an excellent choice. They're very reliable and cushion a lot of abuse from getting to the crankshaft and block. We use Bill Miller's mid-size forging (basically a TAFC rod) in the Boss Bird.

2) methanol sounds more consistent than E85 for a max effort deal (is it really 85% all the time?). You will have to keep close reign on all your variables.

3) talk to Travis. I learn something every time I talk to him.

Eric

[dci]

Does anyone know who makes the best impeller design? Also waste gates. Do I need electrically controlled or are mechanical better? How big of an injector will be needed?

Eric, What size wrist pin and crank pin are you guy's using?

Tom, Who is Brad P and what make of engine does he run?

I did try to get in touch with Travis, but we keep missing each other it seems. I will try again.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[BruceWilkie]

Don... I'd look no further than Travis for turbos and injection...any other advise he has... keep tryin.

I think the BME rod advise is excellent.

Agree methanol probably least complicated... probably most reliable/safer than race gas or E85 and certainly cost effective.

[Engo]

When you get to the boost level needed for 3000hp the waste gates will need to be electronicaly controlled and also assisted by compressed air.

If you choose a good EFI system (like Holley Dominator EFI) the boost control are built into the EFI. No extra boxes needed.

I don´t think you will be able to make 3000hp on E85 in a Pontiac. For a 500" Pontiac I say about 1500 without IC and maybe up to 2000 with an IC. Repetable and reliable that is.

You will need meth for sure to make +3000hp.

I don´t understand your concern about crankshaft stroke. We run 4.375 stroke in our Hemi along with a 4.31 bore. And spin it +9000rpm.

[twov8sandat4]

I dream of a street version with your heads for my T/A

I don't have enough turbo knowledge to be of any help

[GTO Dan]

Along with Travis and Curt, I would give Steve Morris a call.

[mgarblik]

Don, I am answering your question for Eric. Our wrist pins are 1.031 diameter, taper wall pin. BME pin, I think it is a Vasco-jet material. We use buttons and no locks. BME 426 forging with the Top Fuel bolt upgrade. 2K-2 material 100 ft lbs. torque with 70 wt oil for lube. .008 stretch. The big ends are BBC 2.200. 17 years, we have never failed a BME Rod, Bearing or wrist pin. Pistons, that's another story, we still have allot to learn!

[dci]

Thanks Mike, good info.

As for stroke, I am concerned about the piston at the bottom of the bore in a Pontiac. Unlike other brands, our blocks do not have the needed extra material at the bottom of the bores. The piston coming out as far as it does with the longer strokes. Especially under these kind of conditions just makes me a little un easy.



Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!!

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

Along with Travis and Curt, I would give Steve Morris a call.

Just don't get any Pontiac building tips from Morris.

[Engo]

Originally Posted by dci

As for stroke, I am concerned about the piston at the bottom of the bore in a Pontiac. Unlike other brands, our blocks do not have the needed extra material at the bottom of the bores. The piston coming out as far as it does with the longer strokes. Especially under these kind of conditions just makes me a little un easy.

At 4.25" stroke the Pontiac block have enough material at the bottom. It is not a problem of the pistons. The Pontiac block at this stroke (4.25") is not any worse than other brands like the hemi or BBC when they are running even longer strokes such as the 4.375" I mentioned or even 4.5" like many of them use. And they spin way over +9000rpm.

[cgeise]

I am running a 4.5 in stroke - and no piston issues. The aluminum rod is much easier on bearings then a a steel rod - I used them both. on Gas one set of 160 injectors will get you aprox. 2400 hp or so - on Alki you need two sets or even 18 total. At 24lb the speed /weight calculators are saying about 2300 hp. I am using a water to air IC and think the Pro mods would too if allowed- cool air is power and widens the tuning window. My turbos are Precision 88 with large turbine wheel - the small ones created to much back pressure. Dual waist gates controlled with an AMS 1000. start small and figure out how to get the power to the ground - then dial it up.

[Travis Q]

Originally Posted by Engo

At 4.25" stroke the Pontiac block have enough material at the bottom. It is not a problem of the pistons. The Pontiac block at this stroke (4.25") is not any worse than other brands like the hemi or BBC when they are running even longer strokes such as the 4.375" I mentioned or even 4.5" like many of them use. And they spin way over +9000rpm.

That is not necessarily a true statement.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

That is not necessarily a true statement.

Now thats an open ended statement - LOL