[Bentwheelbob]

Yeah, I forgot I have a can or two of Ames engine paint floating around. I'll add that to the mix as well. I bought it before I let this whole situation spin out of control, and have just used it to paint a few small parts on the 455HO like the back of the damper. It definitely had a greener tone to it than the Tieman paint.

I think whoever talked about the folly of trying to use a 40 year old part that has been subjected to oxidation, rain, grease and 1000's of hours of high operating temperatures, is absolutely correct. Not that it make this any less fun, but a very valid point nonetheless. If I remember correctly, when I talked with Tieman he said he matched using the paint from the backside of a damper on an unmolested, low mileage engine.

Didn't our old pal Loffen have a page or two on his "tread" about engine paint colors?

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by 165th

I wanna play. Here's a paint daub of Tiemann's '71~'73 blue paint over Ames '71~'73 blue and Ames late '73 blue.

Tiemann's Delstar acrylic enamel ate into the Ames paint causing it to crinkle.

ames looks to have better green hue than the other color. Assuming the non ames is the paint that is on 1/2 of the plate..

[165th]

Originally Posted by 165th

I wanna play. Here's a paint daub of Tiemann's '71~'73 blue paint over Ames '71~'73 blue and Ames late '73 blue.

Tiemann's Delstar acrylic enamel ate into the Ames paint causing it to crinkle.

Here's a clarification on this test panel:

The left half of the plate is Ames '73+ blue
The right half of the plate is Ames '71~'73 blue

The paint daub in the bottom middle of the plate is Tiemann's Delstar paint.

The paint daub in the middle (Tiemann's) is definately greener than the Ames which is bluer. I'm not sure if it reads that in these photos.

Scott clarified with me that he took the sample from the harmonic balancer after removing the lower pulley of a low mileage GT-37 15 years ago. The paint was solid, fresh and unsoiled. I couldn't think of a better sample to use for a color match. I wonder what OEM used to match their color? Anyone know?

[Mezzo]

I'm the one that resurrected this discussion. Thanks for all the reply's. Cant wait to see the results once and for all.

[johnta1]

Wouldn't heat from engine affect the color?

Many times I paint my engines with the BEST blue metallic color and after a couple heat cycles, it looks different.
Probably same for this color?

Seems it would look a little more 'greenish' with heat cycles?

[Judge273]

Maybe because they started like this before they were installed. We tend to make them what we feel is the "best factory look".



BTW: All paints are just "close" to original because they are not original paints....

[RamAir]

Mike, are you pulling your engine to paint it now?

[rexs73gto]

I think what your missing is what color are you trying to copy . Also what year. I bought my car new & the blue on the engine to me was a baby blue or what most call a powder blue. It was on the car for about 8 years before it was pulled & repainted fro a rebuild, but I remember that the color it started was a different color when it was pulled. The baby blue that is scott's color is close to what the 73 baby blue was but the true 73 color was a bit lighter then the one scott has for his color.

[Mezzo]

I would think the Pontiac must have had a paint code or dinzer number or factory approved formula. I would think it must exist somewhere. Thanks for all the great comments.

[rexs73gto]

Hay 165th were talking about ENGINE colors not body colors. But if you go there the color of the body will change over time just as well as the engine , but not as much because it doesn't have the heat cycles. But thats not what is being talked about. And yes if you don't have the excact mix you are just guessing no matter who you are or what you do for a living. It's in the facts not the fiction.

['ol Pinion head]

In the pic on the back of the color samples of the license plate, only one color of enamel when it is subject to years of engine heat cycles is going to add a greenish tint & turn into another color represented. I'll give everyone a clue, the late '73 paint formulation is not it!

Its also amazing that transformed color just so happens to be evident in a high gloss form in the samples shown... why the high gloss on that particular paint sample? Is it because it looks pretty? I know Bill O can answer this, the question is for the rest of you

[Bentwheelbob]

Ok, so preparations are underway for the big paint test this weekend. In case anyone thinks that I am approaching this scientifically, the main preparatory items included buying a fresh bottle of bourbon and a brisket for the smoker. The paints that will be sampled will be the OEM rattlecan, the Ames rattlecan, the Tieman mix and the Pontiac Power mix. To keep everything on an even basis (and because it has been a real long time since I used my HVLP) I stopped at NAPA this morning and had them put the Tieman and PPower mixes in rattlecans. I think I will stop this evening and purchase some melamine at Lowes to use as the test object. This way I can then cut it into smaller pieces and efficiently mail it out to those who are interested. I will also shoot samples on the oil pan, but I have no way of knowing if that paint is original.

When I got back from NY last night I did do a little playing around in the Hot Rod Garage. Below are a few pictures which show the "new" engine with Tieman paint, the oil fill cap from the Black Car with OEM paint, and as a tribute to Greg "The Hose Man" a license plate with Ames. As you can see, three very distinct colors. Also below is a picture from NAPA for scientific documentation. Hah.

One question I would like to hear a little feedback on is whether I should clear all the samples after they are applied to give an even sheen to all the different formulations.

['ol Pinion head]

Bob, not sure what reason there would be to clear any of them, they weren't shot with clear at the Pontiac engine plant. Neither were radiators shot with a gloss black so shiny their tanks looked like hand rubbed lacquer...

The formula you have listed as the Pontiac Power Formula, is it the one Horst Fiedler contributed? If so, it should be the one Lars had published in the Legend in the late '80's. That is the formula I had mixed several times in the early 90's- late 90's & put in cans. The last time around, had a low mile pair of valve covers color analyzed (these had been removed & placed in a box for an older pair of Cal Customs in the Summer of '71). The mix was again, very very close.

As we know, the finish out of a can is not as nice & smooth as it out of a gun, so I'm glad you are going to shoot samples out of gun. I should have another pair of original valve covers off a 4,000 mile original '72. Know I still have the original engine out of that car & it has not been exposed to setting outside in the sunlight. Not sure if those components have had enough heat cycles to color shift or not. Was not concerned with that when I bought that particular Lux LeMans for parts.

Heat cycling brings out more of a green tint & thats is what we are seeing in one sample.. The other extreme, I often run across on the '71-early '73 paint is with the hood off on a parts/project car, or an engine setting in a core pile, the engine enamel tends to fade (bleach out) quite quickly.

[necdb3]

On the first pic the oil cap looks like the correct color. By the photo, that looks like the right amount of green.

You know, you should not have posted what was what! I would have posted the colors to see what everyone thought with only you having the color key.

Dave

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by necdb3

On the first pic the oil cap looks like the correct color. By the photo, that looks like the right amount of green.

You know, you should not have posted what was what! I would have posted the colors to see what everyone thought with only you having the color key.

Dave

2x the sheen. GM did not use full gloss engine colors. A bit much for my taste, but to each their own I guess...

As far as the colors, yes, the OEM color is the closest if not dead on./ The license plate is not even in contention, maybe that is the color of the >73 motors?? The OEM has the correct amount of green in it. Look at the original story linked earlier in this thread. Some guy shows his oil filter adapter, you can see the similar green quite well in that picture..

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by necdb3

On the first pic the oil cap looks like the correct color. By the photo, that looks like the right amount of green.

You know, you should not have posted what was what! I would have posted the colors to see what everyone thought with only you having the color key.

Dave

Given enough heat cycles, the color on the valve cover will become the color on the valve cover cap. Starting with the color of the valve cover cap, one will eventually end up with an ever greener color result.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Given enough heat cycles, the color on the valve cover will become the color on the valve cover cap. Starting with the color of the valve cover cap, one will eventually end up with an ever greener color result.

pinion.. I'm a little lost with your comment about heat cycles. Granted heat cycles will change the appearance of painted metal, but it will ..or should.. have an equal effect on both the valve covers and the oil fill cap.. those two colors will always be the shame shade apart, either freshly painted or 2 years an 20,000 miles later. maybe I am reading your post incorrectly, sounds like you were saying the heat cycles would make the two separate colors eventually look the same/\??

[Bentwheelbob]

Well the pressure is getting to me. Too many decisions, too many choices. I've struggled all day thinking about what I should do tomorrow. How do I make the right selection. After much contemplation today, I've decided that I am going to smoke both ribs and brisket, and at the package store I bought both Knob Creek and Sam Adams Octoberfest....

.....and that gave me an idea. Once I get the test samples sprayed, I am going to take the OEM sample to my paint guy and get him to do a paint match and mix me a pint. Then I am going to combine equal ratios of the tieman and the oem mix and do a test sample of that combined color which I will call Who The F_ck Knows For Sure. Ultimately, I will post paint formulations for all three paint colors (Tieman, OEM and WTFKFS) so that any of you can have it mixed locally.

Regarding the test, I have switched from using melamine to MDF. The melamine was too slick and too flexible. Hopefully I'll have something to post tomorrow evening. Wish me luck on the brisket. They can be tricky.

[necdb3]

If you want it to look real pretty, I would clear it. Although they were not like that from the factory.

[Mezzo]

I'm going to slow cook three racks of baby back ribs while this unfolds.