[72projectbird]

I cant really comment on POCI, but I can make a comment on younger people with these types of cars.

They're too damn expensive! Just look at how Pontiac parts have blown up in price the past few years. I know many people who would love to own a T/A, but when they look at what it cost to buy and restore them, they shy away. Even parts for the 79-81 birds have become pretty expensive. Then the issue clubs run into is that the younger crowd will buy the next best thing (3rd gen T/A or Camaro), and the club doesnt really like having "newer" cars as part of it. Im not saying thats going on with you guys, but it does happen alot with other clubs.

[65 Cat 2+2]

I still enjoy all the cars, but it's about all the friends I've made and all the new ones I hope to make in this hobby that makes it worthwhile.

Well said. Isn't that what it is all about in the end?

[Elarson]

I read the first few pages of this thread and then skipped to the end; so apologies if I'm restating what somebody has already said..

My wife is into horses and each breed has an organization, similar to the brand-oriented clubs in the automotive world. And each breed thinks they're better than the other breeds, etc......very much like the car world.

The one striking thing I've noticed in the horse world.....the breed organizations that actively create an inexpensive fun way to involve younger people thrive and prosper, far beyond the breed organizations that just cater to the older (and more financially well-off) members.

I'm more of a drag racer than a car show guy but I always enjoy the conventions. But it concerns me that I only see the same (getting older) crowd ever year and not much in the way of new blood.

If I try to think as a 20-year old, here's what might help get my attention:

1) car show classes for cheaper, non-numbers matching project cars. It's way to many $$ to compete against the perfect examples.

2) less of the non-stop 50's Beach Boys music. You older guys don't want non-stop rap so why would you expect the 20-somethings to like your music? Do a genuine mix throughout the day.

3) more emphasis on drag racing at the conventions. Yes, I'll admit this is a bit self-serving, but who can argue with the wide age appeal of an exciting day at the races? Young people love drag racing. I thought Dave Bennett was onto something having the Bowling Green show at the track to mix the car show and the race together. I think it's a negative thing conducting them as separate events. Separate events fosters the "us vs. them" attitude. I think much of the success of the Norwalk race is because you get the car show/swap meet/vendors/drag race at one integrated venue.

Think young and the hobby will survive. Think old and we'll all die off and our prized cars will get auctioned off for pennies on the dollar.

JMHO,
Eric

[mgarblik]

I will throw in my 2 cents. 35+ year POCI Member #4199. First, the positive. The Smoke Signals Magazine. Look at one from 30 years ago, the Silver Streak news, and one from the last few years, nuff said. Could the content be improved? sure but the format and layout and overall quality is top notch. One feature I really like in Hemmings Muscle Machines that possibly could be incorporated is an occasional guest page from the movers and shakers in our hobby. How about Arnie Beswick, Rodney Butler, Don Johnson, Scott Tieman, many others? As far as getting young people in the Pontiac hobby? I have been working with young people from 18-30 years old in the automotive field for over 30 years. It will be VERY tough to recruit many into our hobby. That's just a fact we will have to live with. Pontiac going out of business is a devastating blow to getting new blood in the club regardless of what you thought of the product the last decade they were in business. I have been surveying my college level automotive classes the past two years about some of the orphan brands to just see if they know anything about them. You all would be SHOCKED and amazed how fast Pontiac had faded in the minds of the young.
In a class of 24 students mentioned above just over half knew the GTO was a Pontiac. Only 11 knew the GTO was built prior to 2004. 8 did not know the Trans AM was a Pontiac and Pontiac was a division of GM. 4 thought Firebirds/Trans Ams were built by Mitsubishi. Only 9 had ever heard of a Catalina, and only 4 knew they were Pontiacs. Pontiac just did a horrible job of nurturing young potential buyers the last 10 years of their existence. Those same total idiots I mention above can name every stupid engine family Honda makes, every HP and torque figure for every Subaru WRX engine combo, part numbers for every turbo kit and HP wing nut for all those rice grinders. Pontiac made themselves a brand for boring old people, or the lucky few with big bucks to spend on a G8 or GTO the last years of their life. If you are lucky enough to find a young person interested in Pontiac's, you really need to help them along anyway you can. I have one student with a Fiero in fair condition and I helped him up-grade from the iron duke to a v-6. Others in the class think it is cool. The only way I see POCI holding it's own or actually growing is to take some aggressive action to get the lower cost late model cars in the club. They will be the ones most likely owned by young people. FWD Grand Ams, Grand Prix, Sunfire's, Azteks. I don't particularly like any of them, but they are affordable to young drivers.
Young people have the attention span of a gnat. The POCI convention needs to have lots and lots of choices and many things to do. The more that contain ACTION, the better. An autocross, a slalom, a cruise, anything that has them DOING things with their cars will help with young members. Sitting around staring at a field of perfect restored cars is the highlight of the convention. I understand that. Many members have spent tens of thousands of dollars in restoration and want and expect recognition for their efforts. It would be nice if we could FORCE the young to appreciate our accomplishments, but that is not likely to happen. Think about how museums have changed over the past decade to include much more interactive activities that don't require long attention spans. Once we get some younger members to at least attend a convention, a target seminar for young new members might help get them into the history more, if it was well presented. I still visit 15-20 different vocational high schools every year with the Grocery Getter and Boss Bird race cars talking about the rich history of the Pontiac brand. In a matter of 15 minutes or so, even with a dynamic car like these in front of them, some begin to fade out. As soon as I mention that if they all pay attention and ask questions, at the end of the presentation, they will get to hear the car run, there are no more attention issues. ACTION works.

[Formulabruce]

Having had alot of marketing education I can attest to the attention span thoughts. Only need to look back 2 posts to see that this whole thread was skipped to > enter that persons points of view< and it wasn't skipped over by a 20 year old.
Sound "bites" are the present fvorm of communication.
Eventually there should be "car show apps" for smart phones
>> There should be "fantasy drag racing" with known RL drag racers..for the off season.
ALL GM car shows are the present and future
>> New ford mustangs show up in droves at cruise nights
Its FINE to play Ted Nugent at car show..its also fine to throw in a disco tune....
I saw a cruise night offer a side by side hotwheels racing set up and at the second week it was crazy with boys wanting to race, yes BOYS....soon they will need a timer and photo finish camera..
Lots of ideas , just have to try them out......
you dont have long to get the kids attention, and or the adults anymore...

[Racer81x]

Just a question:

Why does it seem that poci discriminate against people that mail in adds compared to those who e-mail them in, not everyone has a computer, or may have one in there household, but may not know how to use it.

My dad had mailed in a few adds a couple of years ago, and not one was posted, a couple of friends of ours also had mailed in adds, and same story, they were not posted.

One of the guys called someone in the origanization and asked why, or what the deal was and they were told to e-mail them instead.




While e-mail may be faster and more convinent, many older people don't or can't e-mail.

[Don Keefe]

As far as the mailed-in ads go, they do take a little longer to get in and if the rules are not adhered to, such as no prices given, they do not go in. Simple as that. I tell people to call in their ads rather than send them in to avoid problems.

If there is a problem with a classified ad, all that needs to be done is to call me at 585-489-9826 and I will take care of the problems while they are on the phone.

[MPKind]

I've been a member of POCI off and on going back to 1990, attended the '01 Nats in Minnesota, and various local events over the years through the local (Tomahawk Ch. 13) club. I lost interest a long time ago because the local club came across as very cheap...they threw nickels around like manhole covers. The monthly meetings were very boring and more of a get together for the most devoted members (less than 30 people). There was very little incentive for new members to join and if they did join and attend a club meeting, retention was low and you'd rarely see that person again. The ironic thing is Dave Bennett was part of our local club, and you would think that a President of POCI could positively influence local membership, and I know he made many concessions to help, but in the long run, I don't think there was anything anyone could do to make the club strong and vibrant. Too much resistance to change, I guess.

As a comparison, the local GTOAA club does better. Why? Well GTO's are sexier than other Pontiacs...not my opinion since I prefer B-Bodies, but it's just the way it is. I don't really care for that kind of car bias, but to be honest I'd rather attend a GTOAA carshow and meeting than a local POCI meeting anyday. Despite some of the members coming across as elite GTO owners, they know how to attract members and keep them. There are many car clubs that have figured out how to attract and retain members. I don't have an answer for the woes of POCI, I've had no desire to attend a National POCI show since '01. When was the last really good National POCI event anyway? I could go on, but I stopped ranting about the lack of creativity and other deficiencies years ago. Do I want POCI to be revitalized...sure, but it take bold ideas and a BOD willing to take risks once not considered.

[Elarson]

I'm guilty as charged (from the earlier post) for skipping a bunch of the pages. Unfortunately, most of the long threads end up being just a bunch of petty bickering between a few posters and I just wasn't in the mood to see if that had happened. And of course, the attention span observation has merit also.

Eric

[Alvin]

As I've been currently reading "Leadership In Organizations" by the United States Military Academy, West Point, NY many organizational styles and topics related to the OP have come to mind.

So as not to further ruffle any feathers, I'll simply share this nugget:

"Individual Performance = Individual Ability x Individual Motivation"

Carry on.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Alvin

"Individual Performance = Individual Ability x Individual Motivation"

The part missing here is ATTITUDE, which can and does affect one's "motivation"
Negativity breeds only MORE negativity...
PMA is the greatest motivation for Positive change..

['ol Pinion head]

Used to enjoy going to the national conventions when had the time to ramp up for them. Between POCI & GTOAA, made 13 different national conventions between '87 & '02, vending at quite a few of them & eeking out the time to ck out years & models of Pontiac's that I have a big interest in. Also made two western regional POCI meets in the early 90's, met quite a few nice CA folk, ck'ed out cars, bought parts.

At one time in Smoke, there were a few well written tech articles that a few of my compadre's & myself enjoyed, after that, it became fairly thin. During the 90's, I subscribed to GTO/Pontiac Enthusiast which was really good read, HPP, was a member of NMCA, & had a first class Hemmings subscription. Eventually each "need" changed. Also for many years put the classifieds to use in Smoke, both looking for certain parts,listing parts for sale, & promoting the GT-37 Survey. For those years, the national membership was a value & there was a great sense of camaraderie going to the national shows. That camaraderie was not evident locally, the club situation locally had sucked, for a long long time. Several of us tried with a lot of positive influences to get a barely alive local club out of the mire of mediocrity in the late 80's & early 90's. After about 5 years, several of us realized the local club wasn't worth trying to build into a strong regional club. Quite a few others bailed & it was again a small boys club for one local GTO clown car builder & his buddies.

That was no big loss, realized I was in a race with time out on the road in the boneyards, networking, dragging in partscars, tons of swappers. Through my own activity was able to meet some very fine Pontiac folks with similar interest. Didn't have to deal with locals whose idea of a great club is living their social lives through their driver "showcars" at local/yokel shows, & attending a monthly club meeting at Hooters.

Towards the mid 90's, there became a saturation of swapmeets in my region, partially due to certain promoters there were swapmeets nearly every weekend. Many longtime vendors became very picky where they set up. Know I quit setting up @ more than one or two big swappers a year. Next, the first internet boards started to take off. A whole 'nother way to communicate Pontiac hobby wise. First encountered & posted a few responses on the PY board when it was in its infancy... back in the late 90's when a bunch of us had our first PC's w/ windows 95 & AOL or Prodigy email accts. The ability to somewhat easily communicate with other Pontiac owners with same type vehicles & interests was greatly enhanced. This ability, to a large degree, cut into the need to be at conventions & network. For finding nos parts, same can be said of Ebay before they bought Paypal & all the fees went through the roof.

Looking back, what was my main interest to join a national Pontiac club? My restoration interest has always focused on correct detailing. That interest required feeding, very in depth study & documenting. that interest wasn't being fed locally through POCI or GTOAA chapters within a few hours drive. As diesel prices soared I cut back on my time traveling to many regional Pontiac events every year, I'd rather be out in the remaining country yards & not give up 4th of July & family time.

Eventually, will most likely rejoin both national clubs. If I lived in a much larger metro area could possibly find a chapter of either club that was a good fit. Until then, will occasionally ck out good friends' Legend & Smoke mags when I see them. Will also continue friendships with longtime Pontiac buddies, who like myself, still enjoy the Pontiac musclecar era hobby immensely, but don't see a big need to be part of POCI.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Alvin

As I've been currently reading "Leadership In Organizations" by the United States Military Academy, West Point, NY many organizational styles and topics related to the OP have come to mind.

So as not to further ruffle any feathers, I'll simply share this nugget:

"Individual Performance = Individual Ability x Individual Motivation"

Carry on.

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

The part missing here is ATTITUDE, which can and does affect one's "motivation"
Negativity breeds only MORE negativity...
PMA is the greatest motivation for Positive change..

More:

"All organizations, no matter how complex or simple, have a reason for existence.
…Sometimes there may even be a difference of opinion as to the purpose of the organization. …For those who are already members of an organization with those higher in the organization. Without knowledge of purpose, organizational leaders may find themselves in a reactive rather than a proactive mode of leadership.

…we can see that organizational or group performance is really a function of the sum of the product of individual abilities and motivations.

When unmotivated members (and prospective members)...fail to perform, the organizational purpose fails to be accomplished and the organization WILL CEASE TO EXIST."

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Alvin

When unmotivated members (and prospective members)...fail to perform, the organizational purpose fails to be accomplished and the organization WILL CEASE TO EXIST."

That pretty much says it.... Are you a prospective member??
Negativity affects the motivation of those who are both......is that the goal here?

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by MPKind

Do I want POCI to be revitalized...sure, but it take bold ideas and a BOD willing to take risks once not considered.

Well, if you have ideas that you feel will be a game-changer, please post them here or PM me, Deadhead or Mike Nixon (the first two are running, the last is already a BOD member (I think)).

[higgenslake]

Have the "powers that be" figure out a way to merge Norwalk and POCI.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by higgenslake

Have the "powers that be" figure out a way to merge Norwalk and POCI.

Norwalk, as a Pontiac event holds its own. With hotels booked up for many miles, it would be very hard to expand the Pontiac experience.

POCI conventions are at different locations each year, with chapters putting in bids to host Nationals & have many long term preparations. That wouldn't work very long if POCI Nationals were held in the same location, each year, eventually they would run out of enthusiastic volunteers.

[higgenslake]

How does Norwalk do it without volunteers?

['ol Pinion head]

Higgens, from my limited experience going to Norwalk, it is a commercially run & volunteer staffed event. My point was it would take a much larger venue to fill the current level of participation of a well attended Norwalk event with a POCI National convention.

[MPKind]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Well, if you have ideas that you feel will be a game-changer, please post them here or PM me, Deadhead or Mike Nixon (the first two are running, the last is already a BOD member (I think)).

The first thing I'd look into would be other car clubs that have a strong membership and good retention. What are they doing to make that happen? How is the club promoted? Granted, certain cars can have a strong influence on these factors.

Fix the website is another no brainer. With social networking hot right now, websites have to be easy to navigate and must bring in enough new information over a period of time that people will visit again. However, it would have to be unique enough to stand out from the PY forum…it covers a lot. I guess there's a Facebook page with 3192 "Friends". It's under "Pontiac OaklandClub". Yes, there's no space btw Oakland and Club…I didn't know it existed until now. That's good to know.

There's just a couple of my ideas that I'm sure others have thought of…