[grandville455]

The simple fact is that harry's testing on this particular car's setup picked up power, mis match or not, it picked up,there is no one intake works on everything, there are soooo many variables in a car like exh,cam etc that will effect the outcome of a test or a certain part. Why cant we ever accept one's test and take it with a ****ing grain of salt! Same thing goes on in race section with fing heads! big deal! Everyone's ego's get in their ways. Just be happy that Pontiac isn't dead and we have all these parts offered for us! This site is turning into a bunch of whining kids not getting there way, even I will admit I have been caught up in it at times in the past ,but have since quit posting on certain ****.

[GOAT WHORE]

So are we not to debate it? Ask not why? Just bow down in awe at the hp gain? Come on, why not discuss why the hp gains? Some people just need thicker skin.

[67drake]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

So are we not to debate it? Ask not why? Just bow down in awe at the hp gain? Come on, why not discuss why the hp gains? Some people just need thicker skin.

I agree. I actually learn more from this type of thread because people let it all hang out. It seems like you get more points of view too.
It's also possible to debate without being an A hole. I've debated/questioned before in the past and some people automatically think I'm disagreeing with them and get butthurt. Sometimes "why" just means "Why?"

[harry k]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

So are we not to debate it? Ask not why? Just bow down in awe at the hp gain? Come on, why not discuss why the hp gains? Some people just need thicker skin.

someone proudly wears their name"WHORE"
do you want to rationalise with that? go figure that out .....

[MCronkGTO]

Really guys!? Is this what is has come too? Everyone is entitled to their opinions. As with anything on the internet you have to make your own decisions about the information posted.

We have far too many "haters" and their attitudes detract from this forum.

Mark C

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by MCronkGTO

Really guys!? Is this what is has come too? Everyone is entitled to their opinions. As with anything on the internet you have to make your own decisions about the information posted. Mark C

okay then. Re-read Post #6 FWIW, for my opinion is;

the customer ought to try a Q-JET on his Freshly painted iron intake, re-Dyno eval, THEN sell the Squarebore;

to be ahead of this game financially, and with higher & more responsive performance.

objective as it gets. HIS

[GOAT WHORE]

I have no agenda here. I run a Ultra 950 on a RPM with aluminum heads and headers on one combo and will be running a Q-jet on a stock intake, iron heads and RAIIIanifolds on another. Its all in what your desired end results are.

[Chipped Tooth]

Back in Highschool with my Gto I had a 600 dp on a factory 4 bbl intake with the open taperd adapter, ran good then I ground out the plenum to make a almost single plain as such and the car was quicker and faster at the track. How much? Don't remember exactly that was 15 years ago.
Then a Street Dominator went on and I never looked back...

Thanks to OP for the test !!!!!

[NeighborsComplaint]

What a surprise , an aluminum intake with a flange-matching carburetor outperformed a cobbled together intake mismatch with a PepBoys store carburetor adaptor. Like comparing apples and lemons.

[rtanner]

wow i been gone awhile, this threads reminds me why i left, you dont see this on the yellow bullet

[Cliff R]

I don't enjoy the same freedom as others when it comes to this type of thread. As soon as I point out serious flaws with the parts tested, the OP gets his panties all wadded up and starts attacking me with all the personal crap, condescending attitude toward me in a personal nature, and whines and cries like a little child, threating to quit taking my replies "lightly", blah, blah, blah. Harry, why don't we just air all this stuff in Public Forum. You hate my guts because I REFUSED to send back your carburetor without payment, which we never did get and it's been over two years now, and all I was charging you half our normal labor rate, plus materials and return shipping.

Folks need to grow up and look at the FACTS. All you need to do is look at the picture that I put up on my own thread where I painted the factory gasket white to show how terrible the miss-match is between the parts, and how far up you MUST raise the AFB clone just to keep the throttle plates from hitting the intake.

Then use a little bit of common sense and form your own conclusions as to what was really tested here.

Unless you are a complete idiot when it comes to engine efficiency, and think air moving thru an engine enjoys running into flat areas where it has to make SERIOUS bends to find it's way thru the intact tract doesn't effect airflow clear across the load/speed range, then you need to get off this thread, and even clear out of the hobby all together....IMHO.

This was NOT an intake manifold comparison, as one set-up was HIGHLY flawed and using components that were not designed for it. It's no more complicated than that, yet I'm sitting here wondering how so many folks that I thought really had their "shi@ together" patted Harry on the back and thought this was a valid "apples to apples" comparison instead of a "back to back" test comparing a well optimized set-up vs a cobbled up set-up using miss-matched components.

Folks also need to look very closely at the intake testing we have done, and other hobbyists like Jim Hand. The factory engineers really did know what they were doing with these things. Even a later model EGR intake can support great power without a single modification to it, and with some professional porting your Pontiac powered vehicle can run like this......on bias ply tires!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AVXn...ature=youtu.be

The early intakes can run this good with a little messaging as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AVXn...ature=youtu.be

The white FB is also running on bias ply tires, not slicks, and has went 10.0's in good air!
A lot of folks reading this, including myself don't have our street cars going this quick without any limitations as to what we use on them, let alone having to keep all the "stock" components in place and appearing to be operational.

Anyhow, I'm completely done with this thread, now Harry can whine and cry and continue with his personal attacks toward me to throw folks off tract as to what was really done here and why we need to point out the specifics involved with the testing......Cliff

[harry k]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I don't enjoy the same freedom as others when it comes to this type of thread. As soon as I point out serious flaws with the parts tested, the OP gets his panties all wadded up and starts attacking me with all the personal crap, condescending attitude toward me in a personal nature, and whines and cries like a little child, threating to quit taking my replies "lightly", blah, blah, blah. Harry, why don't we just air all this stuff in Public Forum. You hate my guts because I REFUSED to send back your carburetor without payment, which we never did get and it's been over two years now, and all I was charging you half our normal labor rate, plus materials and return shipping.
Cliff

I don't know where this guy starts off with his BS about what he's stating about the carb,hey its been over 7+ friking years about a junk Q-jet core i have sent you,so you think i give damn about you keeping my junk core and hate your guts.(look whos the childish here)

In order to make readers here that don't know what the real story is, he has to start more smoke.
As i said, you are the one attacking me when it comes anything other than Q-jet being posted in this forum with some results,YOU AND YOU ONLY IS THE FIRST PERSON TO ATTACK MY CREDENCE,,,,,,READ IT WELL ,IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU NOt ADMITING THAT IS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST HUH,GO FIGURE THIS OUT....
this guy keeps saying i am done with this thread and keeps returning back to stir more sh_t, stop your whinig.
and as i said previously, i am not the only person that he has been in arguements with this individual
hes done it with so many others.

[Skip Fix]

Cliff maybe some semantics apples to apples vs back to back.I think you are missing a big point-many combinations folks run are not optimized as they have some bias they want-existing parts, stock appearing, more street than strip. Then we have theoretical issues/benefits that may or not play out in the real world. Harold Brookshire one of the best cam designers would probably like less exhaust duration than most of the guys use-and most haven't even tried something different. Most of the Pontiac world doesn't even try different ratio rockers on different side-yet look at the SS guys and EMC Pontiac motors-more on the intake. Different convertor and gears in your own car you have mentioned would pick it up-yet you like it more a driver. How many guys tried to copy Jim Hand's 64 heads on a pump gas 455,Wolverine cam, stock intake, Q jet and barely were in the 13s?

Again back to rear world track back to back testing-the adapter and a square nore on a factory intake picked up 0.25 seconds and 3-4 mph getting the car in the 11s for the first time. Yes the air flow wasn't ideal, but it pciked the car up. The next greatest pick up was a really loose big end slippage 5000 stall convertor and fresh tranny that picked up 0.75 seconds getting the car in the high 10s. An inefficient convertor msot wopuld say but the car picked up and 60 ft'd 1.51s on a 9" slick.

Theory vs real world.

This motor Harry tested came with a mismatched intake that did OK but a different intake picked it up. It did show a bigger intake does not hurt performance too.

[goatless]

The only thing bugging me with this whole silly thread is the implication that it was a straight up comparison of two different intakes. The title of the thread states it as such. It's pretty clear to most here that that is not the case.
Because of the other variables at work it is impossible to state that one intake is better than another- even though one may be.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by goatless

The only thing bugging me with this whole silly thread is the implication that it was a straight up comparison of two different intakes. The title of the thread states it as such. It's pretty clear to most here that that is not the case.
Because of the other variables at work it is impossible to state that one intake is better than another- even though one may be.

This and the fact that Mary K starts the whole thing off with his panties in a bunch

[grandville455]

It all comes down to what skip said, a lot of people run these cars cause they like them not cause their looking for every last bit of performance like some of us, that's not their agenda. A mismatch is just that, Harry's customer was happy with the outcome isn't that what matter's? As far as the above video, well there's no doubt that car runs well, looks like jay's car, nothing against jay and what he has done, but I would bet my last dollar its far from "stock"! Looks stock yes that's what that class is, but internally not even close, let alone cubes etc.Jim hands car took years of tweaking to get where he is, and I applaud his contribution two fold! I agree debating is good, but u can clearly see who has issues with who on these boards. The good thing about life is there is more than one way to get stuff done, and don't always have to follow a "golden rule " approach!

[Bill Eveland]

Harry, any speculation of testing if you would have used a qjet on the oe manifold than used an adapter to mount it to the square bore intake? Thanks

[harry k]

Originally Posted by Bill Eveland

Harry, any speculation of testing if you would have used a qjet on the oe manifold than used an adapter to mount it to the square bore intake? Thanks

cfm is cfm, whatever cfm you elect to use @ WOT not matter what carb it is or has been used, the power outcome@peak rpm will be the same.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by harry k

cfm is cfm, whatever cfm you elect to use @ WOT not matter what carb it is or has been used, the power outcome@peak rpm will be the same.

Harry this makes no sense at all. You used the same carb in your dyno pulls with different results. Same carb, same cfm, different power levels. Cfm is cfm but it changes acording to the parts you use.

[harry k]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

Harry this makes no sense at all. You used the same carb in your dyno pulls with different results. Same carb, same cfm, different power levels. Cfm is cfm but it changes acording to the parts you use.

usually i don't rationalise with someone uses the name "WHORE"
but i ll make it clear in this case
keyword here "acording to the parts you use" yes i used high rise aluminum intake manifold which benifited the engine.NOT A MODIFIED CAST IRON INTAKE MANIFOLD THAT REQUIRES TO RUN Q-JET AND ASSOCIATED FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM TO SUPPLEMENT A SMALL BOWL CARB THAT NEEDS ALL THE HELP IN THE WORLD TO MAKE THEM WORK TO SIMPLY MEET A HOLLEY OR EDELBROCK CARB PERFORMANCE!!!!