[GT182]

If you haven't seen this yet it is a must watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceW9Nc1hVHU

Looks like the gubernment is out to get us all.

['ol Pinion head]

In Sept, Magellan lowered the octane on the base stock gasoline that they pump though their major pipelines. To get the octane up to 87 (from 84), once the gasoline gets to the local terminal, they dump ethanol in it, blend it... This goes on all over the country. Locally, am fortunate our area is under EPA compliance & retailers can sell 100% pure gasoline. That's all I will put in our late model, even 15 year old drivers. Many, many of my local friends & acquaintances do the same, they have all confirmed how much lower mpg they get on gasohol/ E10.

The worry is eventually this super low octane base stock will be pumped through the pipelines so much of the time that pure gasoline stocks will dwindle. Of course that's what the ethanol shills want. Its all about their GREED. The Fed ethanol mandate not only needs to be trimmed, it needs to stuck down! Think that's going to happen under current administration? No, but the ethanol bunch does need to be kept in check.

[Ccass]

Good information but let's not turn it into a political topic and have it get closed.

[LordPancake]

I will only run 100% in just about everything I own, even lawnmowers. In fact, lawnmowers are where I saw the damage first-hand that ethanol gas causes. Every season we were replacing the diaphragms in the mowers because the ethanol would eat them up. 100% gas since then without a problem.

Thankfully there is a station in town that still sells 100% of all octanes up to 93. It isn't cheap (regularly about $0.50 more/gallon) and I won't touch the politics behind it, but I can tell you that the subsidies stuff make it easier for me to pay that extra for 100% gasoline.

[74gto]

The small engine industry lobbied HARD against this and lost. Warranty does not cover fuel related issues, and e-10 is bad enough on these engines.

[kylek350]

Ethanol blends wreak havoc on anything but daily drivers, it seems. For anyone with occasionally driven cars, boats that get stored, or landscape equipment that is not used year-round, it's a total pain. I have a tiller that won't run properly on e15 that's older than 3 weeks. So between decreased fuel economy and reduced stability, I'm officially not a fan.

[george kujanski]

Not thinking who is right or wrong, but here we have been using E10 for more years than I can remember and haven't had any issues relating to fuel line corrosion, blah, blah.

Is pure gas better, yes. Is e15 so much more terrible than e10, don't know, but it can't be like falling off a cliff by increasing 5%.

Sure there's probably gubment bureaucracy and overall greed behind the ethanol thing but let's add some common sense to the issue.

The video claims there is engine damage due to detonation when phase separation happens and the engine starts using the 83? octane fuel.....don't modern engines with computers (prob all cars for the last 20 years) have detonation sensors and the computers retard timing when detonation is detected?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Everyone get on the bandwagon!

George

[kylek350]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

The video claims there is engine damage due to detonation when phase separation happens and the engine starts using the 83? octane fuel.....don't modern engines with computers (prob all cars for the last 20 years) have detonation sensors and the computers retard timing when detonation is detected?

Do you want to have to pay for a lawn mower with an engine computer?

My issue is that ethanol blended fueled is not better for the environment. It's inferior fuel that's not really solving a problem directly.

[GT182]

George, the lady it the video said it all. Now if the auto makers say the warranty is void if you use E15 in a new 2013 and up non flex-fuel vehicle, that tells you even more that E15 is bad.

I've not really had any problems either using E10 in the 2000 Jeep, 96 Tarus, or my 92 G2000 Kubota garden tractor.. or the GTO. Mileage sucks in the road cars and engine temps are higher. Tho I finally found out back in late November that E10 is a major part of my engine's heating problem. That was after burning 5 gallons of E10 mixed with 8 gallons 100LL. A mileage increase of 3 mpg, and it ran 10 to 15 degrees cooler.... so said the infrared thermometer. Straight gas should even be better, but sadly we can't get gas with no ethanol in it, unless you go to a marina.

[necdb3]

I always question the REAL total cost of ethanol fuel. Gubment subsidies for the corn growers $$, food cost go up (for not growing for food), energy cost to convert it to ethanol, less BTU's in a gallon = less fuel economy and/or more fuel consumed to travel a mile.

Is it really worth it?

Not to mention, we have a glut of gasoline in our country so much as we are the largest exporter of gasoline.

[salem1912]

Here is the other side to the story:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU

You can skip to 8:25 Unless I missed it they never mention MPG's

[kylek350]

Originally Posted by kylek350

Ethanol blends wreak havoc on anything but daily drivers, it seems. For anyone with occasionally driven cars, boats that get stored, or landscape equipment that is not used year-round, it's a total pain. I have a tiller that won't run properly on e15 that's older than 3 weeks. So between decreased fuel economy and reduced stability, I'm officially not a fan.

Oops, I stand corrected. The fuel I'm complaining about is e10, not e15. Given my experience with e10, I'm guessing it will be worse if e15 supercedes it.

[NBF823]

I don't know that I ever used gas that was 100% gasoline. Honestly, I'm 37 and I think there's been E10 here since the mid 90s when I started driving.

I'd hate to have to replace anything do to damage from E15 or higher, as I really don't have the money, nor care to do such repairs on my daily driver car.

If they implement E15 slowly, with options not to buy, I can't say that I'm opposed just yet.
It could mean that when I buy my next car, it'll have a stainless fuel system and pretty good engine management.

My 85 nissan and my 87 mazda both sported detonation sensors, but those were both turbo motors. Along with my cars, I think I've always ran E10 in my mowers, and never had a choice to do otherwise.

I have two projects cars, that as I obtain extra money, I do more work to. One of these is a two liter turbo, and I don't think I'm to opposed to E85 for that. Actually from time to time, I look to see how many gas stations are selling here, and I can tell you not many. I take on many projects, so I can't remember everything off hand, but if I remember correctly, I think that tiny blower motor is gonna like E85.

[dataway]

My truck is a "flex-fuel" GMC which will run on up to 85% ethanol. If what the woman said about fuel lines and gaskets is true, it would mean that my truck must have special fuel lines, tank, gaskets, seals, pumps etc. And I seriously doubt it does, as it was standard on a 2011 GMC 1500 with a 5.3.

When you order any of these parts for this truck, none of them are E85 or flex-fuel specific. So why is that ethanol will not destroy my truck? The major difference is that the computer and injection system is designed to handle the E85, but that wouldn't help the fuel lines or anything ...I don't think the truck has an entirely SS fuel system or special gaskets that are any different than gaskets designed to handle E10.

It does get about 2.5 mpg better on 100% gasoline (ethanol free station about 15 miles away). I've never run E85 in it. The major difference I notice is storage. I have five motorcycles that I store for sometimes over a year at a time ....using ethanol with stabilizer they are a pain to start. Using 100% gasoline with stabilizer they start right up. I fill all my property use gas cans with 100% gas, and all the motorcycles with 100% gas.

But, as for GMC anyway, they warranty their engines to burn up to 85% ethanol in the flex free and I'm pretty sure they are ALL E15 capable. Not sure what is so different about GMCs (no jokes please . Heck, if I can use E85 with no damage, should be able to use 100% gas for about 50 years without problems.

For an efficiency standpoint, and an environmental standpoint ...corn based ethanol is a disaster. Bio-mass ethanol, ok (if they can perfect it). Sugar based ethanol, ok ...corn, stupid. Way more efficient as food.
JohnnyB

JohnnyB

[Simple Man]

Hmmmm FOX news, and the government, who would have guessed?

Fuels around here have been blended since the early 80's. Back then it was called Gasohol. You had to change the fuel filters when you first started using it, all the gunk from over the years was cleaned out.

My 2011 is equipped to run E85, mileage is down a bit when you run it straight. Haven't noticed any temperature increases or any other bad effects.

[LordPancake]

Originally Posted by dataway

My truck is a "flex-fuel" GMC which will run on up to 85% ethanol. If what the woman said about fuel lines and gaskets is true, it would mean that my truck must have special fuel lines, tank, gaskets, seals, pumps etc. And I seriously doubt it does, as it was standard on a 2011 GMC 1500 with a 5.3.

When you order any of these parts for this truck, none of them are E85 or flex-fuel specific. So why is that ethanol will not destroy my truck? The major difference is that the computer and injection system is designed to handle the E85, but that wouldn't help the fuel lines or anything ...I don't think the truck has an entirely SS fuel system or special gaskets that are any different than gaskets designed to handle E10.

Actually they are definitely designed to run E85, but it is a standard of those 5.3s. We had a 2007 Tahoe that was flex-fuel, and if you read the owners manual it tells you that the engine will detect it and remap itself, so you have a specific engine computer designed for it that not all modern vehicles will have. Also, modern fuel systems have to be designed with ethanol blends in mind, but we all know that if 10% is the norm, car companies will design it with 10% in mind, not 11% if it costs more. GM markets the flex-fuel as a benefit, but it's not because it is a free thing to implement.

I have watched ethanol eat up rubber and cork parts very quickly; I hate putting E10 in my cars, especially the old ones, and I don't know what I would I would do if it kept creeping in more and more. Rebuilding carbs is a PITA. I think the point of this message was, if your car hasn't been designed for higher than 10% ethanol (or at all, in the case of old cars) then running higher and higher blends is opening you up to more and more issues. It is not about whether or not ethanol is bad, or if you have an E85 vehicle that E15 will blow it up. It's just a PSA about watching what you stick in your tank because you may be opening yourself up to a screwed up fuel system and no recourse from your warranty.

[LordPancake]

Originally Posted by salem1912

Here is the other side to the story:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU

You can skip to 8:25 Unless I missed it they never mention MPG's

Interesting to watch, but I just want to point out that the video was made by ACE Ethanol, and was uploaded by and links to an ethanol conversion kit retailer, although their kits look like just a piggy back on your ignition system?

[ponjohn]

We do not have a choice.

Every blend here is E10 or 15 I forget.

We have one station in the whole state that sells E85 at a retail level. BUT the state has pumps that dispense E85 for the state vehicles.

[Formulabruce]

Ethanol Alcohol will eat your carb fuel pump, your mechanical fuel pump, and other gaskets in the carb.
Newer cars for flex are equipped to run this, HOWEVER
Look at a window sticker on a new truck ( take the 5.3)
Cruising range ...................380 miles
Cruising range on E-85.........218 miles
The more alcohol, the worse fuel economy, even though it has more base octane rating, its piss poor in the mass density dept.
Also E85 costs over 1 dollar MORE per Gallon to make, than it sells for ( subsidy.. federal taxes pay that)
E15 is over the limit on what "most" car fuel pumps/systems can handle and put a new kind of corrosion in your engine.
Fix? none. Its a money pit, pay taxes to subsidize, and pay for additives and pay for retrofits. While Volcanoes blow off more debris than any country could in 200 years, in One Day!
The EPA was given, by the Senate 3 years ago, the Complete power to implement and make more regs dating back to 1973.
Expect to see more "dreamy" ideas.. only fix is to complain to your reps...

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Ethanol Alcohol will eat your carb fuel pump, your mechanical fuel pump, and other gaskets in the carb.
Newer cars for flex are equipped to run this, HOWEVER
Look at a window sticker on a new truck ( take the 5.3)
Cruising range ...................380 miles
Cruising range on E-85.........218 miles
The more alcohol, the worse fuel economy, even though it has more base octane rating, its piss poor in the mass density dept.
Also E85 costs over 1 dollar MORE per Gallon to make, than it sells for ( subsidy.. federal taxes pay that)
E15 is over the limit on what "most" car fuel pumps/systems can handle and put a new kind of corrosion in your engine.
Fix? none. Its a money pit, pay taxes to subsidize, and pay for additives and pay for retrofits. While Volcanoes blow off more debris than any country could in 200 years, in One Day!
The EPA was given, by the Senate 3 years ago, the Complete power to implement and make more regs dating back to 1973.
Expect to see more "dreamy" ideas.. only fix is to complain to your reps...

Well I think that's just it, there is no fix. What I thought, was that this was to slowly ween us off of a major gasoline dependence. I don't remember anyone saying we were going to like it, nor anyone saying they had something with the power to cost ratio of gasoline. What I thought I heard was; that there is only so much gasoline in the world, that other parts of the world have a growing demand for gasoline, and that at some point we as human beings will not have gasoline, and until that time, expect gasoline to grow increasingly more expensive.

I don't know that this will happen in our lifetimes, I don't know how much of the "gas crises" are political bs. But I do believe it is something that is currently non renewable.
But as far as I know, its a bad taste issue - it's just plain not gonna be easy. Maybe if we try, implement, start to look to, and somehow prepare for this impending, growing change, we can soften the blow on ourselves and future generations.

Please don't think that I'm one of those greeny Prius drivers, and that I'm out to make others change - I'm not, it's not my responsibility nor desire. What my standpoint is - is what can I make work. I'm a car enthusiast, and I have always been. I don't think, if I go to the gas station tomorrow, and gas is ten dollars, or even if there is no gas, will I stop being a car guy. I probably won't have a very good spell, but I think, I can make my cars adapt, so I could keep them.

I've already been having to adapt. Gas is already expensive, emissions requirements have already been imposed. On current projects, I have already adopted more expansive gearings, looked into and started acquiring fuel injection systems, Think about weight seriously, and expanded my outlook on what would be ideal mods for me. I clearly can't make that many changes all at once, I acquire more skill than cool cars, but what else could I do - just grin and bear it, and hang in there right?