[boodlefoof]

Hi all (long post due to back story for those interested - if you just want to get to the summary and questions, skip to the end),

Back Story:

Progress on my '63 Tempest build begun in 2012 has slowed to a crawl as a result of another baby and another project - restoring a 200+ year old house. Time and money are both in shorter supply. So, my plan to build a killer stroked 400 with aluminum heads has been put on the back burner. In the meantime I hope to keep the project moving along, albeit slowly, with a "temporary" engine. Not sure how "temporary" it will be. Time will tell! I went in search of a more-or-less complete (preferably running) and inexpensive (Norm - if you're reading, what I mean is "cheap" ) engine to use that would still be fun to tool around with.

Last night I took a gamble on a "it ran great when pulled a few years ago" engine that I found locally. The owner couldn't really tell me anything about it other than it wasn't going to be used in a '67 Tempest project and that it needed to go because of a move. The owner also thought it was a 428 due to the "428" stickers that someone had put on the valve covers and oil pan... The red repaint job someone had given it obscured the engine code.

The engine turned over smoothly and had been sealed-up with duct tape. I popped the valve cover and it looked clean inside, with stock rockers and pressed-in studs. A little work with a wire brush showed the engine code as XV, block 9786133 and heads #061, all with matching May 1967 date codes. I consulted my engine codes sheet print-out and found it to be a high compression 290hp 400 with 2bbl carb. My heads info print out led me to believe these were small valve, small chamber heads. I was a little unimpressed. But, the thing had an Edelbrock Performer intake and 750cfm carb (date code 2006) on it, and a Mallory Unilite (3758001 - no vacuum advance) ignition setup. The price was also right: $500. It came with the TH400 that was attached to it.

I read up a little more on the 061 heads after getting it home since I wasn't familiar with them, and found conflicting reports about these being big-valve heads. I decided to go ahead and start tearing it down to inspect it. Sure enough, the heads have big 2.11/1.77 valves and an interesting chamber shape. Since everything was so clean and the engine had been repainted, I started to consider that perhaps it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility to think that someone had stuck a 4'' crank in there when rebuilding the engine. With the head off I measured the stroke: stock 3.75'' I also found that it has 4-valve-relief pistons and is still standard bore. Pistons are .020'' in the hole. I couldn't really make out cross hatching left in the bores (light wasn't very good), but no scars were there either. I had presumed the engine to have been rebuilt at some point, but perhaps not. I have yet to pull the second head, the pan, or the timing cover to see whether the cam is factory. I haven't verified combustion chamber cc either. I had to get to bed. I'll hopefully squeeze in another hour out in the garage tonight.

Summary:

I'm cheap. I bought a '67 400, code XV, with #061 heads and TH400 trans for $500 hoping to use it as my "temporary" engine while I save funds for a big build later. It looks clean inside, turns over smoothly and is standard bore. It presently has an Edelbrock Performer intake and 750cfm carb and a Mallory Unilite ignition (no vacuum advance). I still have to check the cam to see if I can figure out what it is.

Questions:

Any suggestions or reminders for specific things to look for in inspection and evaluation of the engine? I haven't torn down a Pontiac motor before. I probably should have primed it and run a leakdown test before pulling the head off...

And very generally, what would you do with this on a minimalist budget to turn it into a fun driver?

Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts and comments.

[pontiacs-r-us]

Hi Boo,sounds like you have a stock 67 non a/c big car motor.Also sounds like its not been rebuilt in the past?Basically Same engine in our 67 Cat vert(yd)...First I've never seen these 061 heads have big valves?The combustion chamber you say is different looking.The 061,& 143 still had the sm bathtub chambers like was used in 66.I think you might recheck your valve measurement?More likely they are 1.92/1.66 valves...it should have a 254 cam.Will have a (U) stamped on end cam if so... I would highly recommend a timing set for sure if you are just going reseal and use...Probably has the coated gear ? I think this engine would be fun to drive in that Tempest just as is.Till u can build what you want.Moves our big vert well with 2:56 rear.Not a hot rod for sure,but I'm sure your few hundred pounds lighter.


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[b-man]

The 061 is a big-valve press-in stud head with the later 14 degree valve angle, these replaced the small-valve 20 degree 143 heads mid-1967. The 061 has its own unique combustion chamber similar to the RAIV, it's not a closed bathtub chamber.

I would put a new cam in it, a factory 068 cam would give it some punch and keeps things simple.

New timing chain set and oil pump along with all new freeze plugs while you have easy access.

[Tom Vaught]

Think only the 143 was the small valve with the 65-66 type valve angle.
061 should be big valve as was said with a few mods making it a very good head.

Tom V.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Think only the 143 was the small valve with the 65-66 type valve angle.
061 should be big valve as was said with a few mods making it a very good head.

Tom V.

The 389 in my '64 Cat has 143 heads on it, so what Tom says is accurate.

[boodlefoof]

I got another hour back out in the garage and pulled the second head off. I am surprised again by how easily this engine is coming apart - no stuck bolts, just a light tap with a mallet to free the heads - and how clean everything is inside.

I measured a chamber in each head and both came out at 75cc. I'll give a +/- 1 caveat due to the imprecision of my syringe fill and grease-sealed/rock-weighted-down glass plate measuring method. Armed with the information I have, a trip through the web-based compression ratio calculator tells me I should be right around 9.75:1 compression.

Looking at the deck surface of the block, I also noticed that each cylinder bore has a stamped letter below it. On the drivers side they are from front to rear "J E E J", though someone stamped the "E" backwards in both instances... On the passenger's side they are "H D D H" from front to rear. Can anyone tell me what these signify?

Then I pulled the timing cover. Somebody has been inside this engine!

Under the timing cover I found a double roller timing chain. The cam didn't have any marks on the front, so I pulled it out and found them on the back. It is a Crane HMV-272-2 with a date code of 1990. It specs out at 216/228 @.050 with .454''/.480'' lift and a 112 degree LSA. Should be a great little around-town cruiser.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the bottom end looks as nice as the top! Heck, maybe that TH400 is in good shape too. I need to clear off an engine stand so I can get this motor off the floor and flip it over!

[Tim Corcoran]

Seal it up and put the heads back on and drive it as is until you have your new engine ready. No reason to mess with a perfectly good engine.

[b-man]

The letters stamped on the block deck tell the assembler what size piston to put in each bore, the bores are all measured before assembly and matched to slightly different size pistons.

I agree with Tim, if everything passes a visual inspection (cam lobes, lifters, etc) seal it up nice and run it as-is.

[steve25]

I would pull each lifter ONE at time and inspect there bottom for signs of ware.
Check for near sharp edges on the bottom which would mean that the lifter, lobe and in turn cam are toast.

Set each lifter on a known well flat surface like a stone counter top and look for daylight under each lifter which would also mean the same toast condition as above!
Pull each rocker off ONE at a time and check the contact area of the rocker and valve stem for ware and grooves.

Check each rocker ball ONE at a time and look for cracks radiating out to the edge from the hole.
Take a straight edge and set it across the rocker stud tops and look for studs that are pulling out, and yes the 061 heads are 2.11" intake and 1.77" Exh.

Next check each push rod end for flat spots and roll them on that flat surface to check for straightness.

If it where me I would pull the pan and at least check the number 1 and 2 rod and main bearings as they show signs of oiling problems first and then reseal the pan !

If all checks out I would replace the oil pump and its drive rod with a 60 psi unit, but note to use a HD drive rod. These can just be swapped over to the other motor when the time comes.
I would then look for issues of oily wet chambers and piston tops and check the head for cracked valve seals which would mean pulling the valve springs for that cylinder as the intake valve has two seals, one on the guide and one on the valve stem under the keepers, the exh valve only has the little o-ring under the keepers
when you fire the motor back up along with the new oil add a can of restore in the V8 size supply and see how she runs!

[boodlefoof]

Thanks guys. After finishing inspection, if everything does check out then I think I will just button it back up, give it a paint job and run it!

$500, plus the cost of some paint and a gasket set for a good running little engine would bring a smile to my face!

[blueghoast]

I put a 69-400 in my 62-Tempest about the same as your situation.
I put a set of #16 heads on it with the same cam as yours and went
to the track. Mines a 4-speed with 4:33:1 gears and went 12:60's
with it , What a blast. Go for it you'll be glad you did.

GT.

[boodlefoof]

Well, now I'm feeling revved-up to do my best to squeeze some more time out in the garage!

[b-man]

About 20 years ago there was a young fellow who used to race with us in the Pontiac Drag Days bracket race series who had a ported set of #061 heads on his car, it was a '63 Tempest station wagon powered by a 400.

I asked him about the heads on his car as I had never seen nor ever heard of a set of #061 heads, everyone always checked out the engines of their competitors and asked questions.

He was a head porter by trade and he told me that the ports in the 061 heads were very similar to the 1968 #16 big-valve 72cc heads.

[boodlefoof]

OK guys, another question for you on putting this together: shorty headers?

Space is really limited for header tubes under the hood due to the modified front suspension and steering. It took me many hours of work to design and build (well, I still haven't finished them!) the mid-length-tube headers that I'll use on the future motor (RAIV ports). I'd rather not have to do that again for the D-ports. So, I'm now trying to figure out the "temporary" exhaust to go with the "temporary" engine. I'm now kicking myself for having junked a pair of D-port exhaust manifolds a few months ago...

A quick look at Summit showed shorty headers starting at $300+. Seems like a lot to me. Does anyone know of some cheaper shorties with a pretty low profile? Alternatively, I'll just have to scrounge up a pair of manifolds.