[Deadhead]

Bought a house built in '92 +- with Qest pipe. Not currently leaking, but can not move in until I get rid of it. (Dana Carvey: 'Not gonna doit') Got prints from architect/owner of home, so at least I know the framing detail. Have to do Pex b/c I can not sweat, & even if I could too dangerous with where I have to work. Got tools and experience doing small jobs with 1/2" prior.

Figure I will start in the basement & break it into existing 3/4 branch sections, installing cut-offs on each so I can isolate and test as I get them done. Just follow each supply line to fixture locations. Figure I will use 10' sticks and try to snake through (maybe attaching to existing w fitting & tape instead of crimp in effort to use as a pull?). Anything to avoid more sheetrock destruction. Looks like the guys that did it swooped the pipe to avoid fittings wherever possible. Probably had issues on other jobs. Any advice from plumbers or those who have done a retro like this would be greatly appreciated.

Bought a couple of these cutters to add to the collection.

[Redpiston]

Doubt you will be able to pull it through with the old pipe as it should be secured to the studs in the wall if it was installed correctly.

I am not a big fan of the PEX. Several of the houses in my neighborhood (7 yrs old) have it. I spec'd out I wanted copper. 3/4 mains with 1/2 branches.

They say the PEX is quieter than copper. I can't say I disagree with that. The only time I ever really hear anything is when my sprinkler system is running. Most of the time I am not at home at that time of the day, so it was no big deal for me.

[Ed Fitzgerald]

Deadhead, you have a quite a job ahead of you. You can sometimes replace electrical wire by pulling it,, hell I've even replaced 3/4 Copper Type K in place of lead by pulling but not PB-1. When using PB-1 all the pipe is put in place as you go and the fittings (Tees, elbows etc) installed between the studs and joists. My advice would be to cut the Drywall and replace using copper. An old fella once told me if you have enough time to do the job twice,, you have enough time and money to do it right the first time. With access to all the joints it will make it easier in the end and allow you to photograph your labours for the Insurance company. Buddy just bought a farm house (always wanted a small farm) found "knob and tube" wiring, cast iron plumbing and pig iron piping for the potable water. His insurance cancelled him on the spot until all is replaced. FWIW. Ed

[gary bennett]

I have worked with copper & plastic, but what is qest pipe?

[KS circutguy]

Originally Posted by gary bennett

I have worked with copper & plastic, but what is qest pipe?

http://www.goinspections.com/?page_id=78
http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/ove...e-class-action
Replaced most of the qest piping after many problems years ago.
Used Pex http://www.pexinfo.com/
Loved working with the stuff,+ it's also safe from freezing.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by gary bennett

I have worked with copper & plastic, but what is qest pipe?

Junk Polybutylene, subject of multiple class action suits, and subsequently banned. Many insurance Cos. will not cover homes with it due to random bursting and fitting failures (early incarnations had lame fittings). Yadda, yadda, yadda. Some Cos will cover it without exception and some will cover up to one failure and then drop you. Bottom line is that it is a problem. Lots of it has made it 20 years, leading some to claim it is fine, but now another wave of failures is occurring at the 20 Yr. mark.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. Result will be worth it in the end. Not going to sweat copper pipe in a retro application and burn the place down. There is nothing more right about copper than Pex. I might rather have it, but mineral content here has caused some copper failures too, so there is no perfect solution. I can do Pex myself, so that is what I am doing. Save a few grand and have the job done with more care than most professionals.

[The Boss]

Don't waste your time trying to get it out - just run new pex lines where it's easiest.

Drain the old stuff, run compressed air through it so nothing is left and forget about it!

[68blackbird]

Run the new pex in the most convenient and least destructive path. You can leave the poly pipe where it is. Material is really not that expensive. If it's easier to run it in a certain path but it's longer. Just run the longer line.

I'm a fan of over sizing water lines. Run 3/4 " to the last tee in a bathroom. Lots of cold water supply minimizes scalding fluctuation in showers when running other appliances or toilets.

How many baths is the house?

Rich

[Deadhead]

That's what I am talking about. Good advice. Totally with you on the material cost. Bought all the fittings and valves already for around $500. Had not considered not following existing work. My initial investigation reveals that a large portion of the destruction in this place will be in closets and other areas not in the main living areas. I am sure I will end up in ceilings etc. Baths are stacked on top of one another, so that will help confine it to some degree. "good" news is that it has not been painted inside since built, so that was going to have to be done anyway. Will make destruction psychologically easier.

Would you start at the devices or in the basement? I was going to start in basement so I could do shut-offs on the branches - have water & a target to work towards.

4 full baths. 1 in basement w steam shower, 1 on 1st floor (powder Rm with shower), 2 on 2nd floor. But, they have got the master & basement bath with the vanity & toilet in separate rooms. I normally hate architects, but I really like this guy. He designed/built a really cool place in conjunction with 2 others he brought in from CA. He worked for a commercial excavation/construction company for decades, so at least he had a lot of experience away from the drafting table. The plumbers shared the same building/office with them. I think the owners were related. Possible that one of the guys that roughed it in is still around. I am going to call him and see if he did the work. It is such a weird place that he might actually remember doing it.

[68blackbird]

4 full baths!!!!

Water pipe sizing is super important with that much happening in one house. As soon as the water pipe comes into the house you need to either be running 1" pipe or branching into two 3/4" pipes.

how far is the water heater from the furthest fixture?

Again, none of this is complicated. But now is the time to size it right. When everyone one is over for Thanksgiving, you will be glad you did.

Rich

[Deadhead]

Yeah, it is set up like that with the 1 - 3/4" config. The WH is as far as you can possibly get from the furthest fixture (pic below. Note no access to tub, which I will remedy). Weird b/c the plans show it in the middle of the basement, but it was installed at the far end where the water enters. Maybe I should move that sucker too. House is not all that big though. 2700 SF. I was going to insulate all the hot.

I know I can handle the job. I just like to have a good plan and lots of info before I do ANYTHING. Easier to roll into plan B. Key is being flexible and letting the job tell you what to do.

[fiedlerh]

I ran PEX 12 years ago for basement heat and never had an issue.
Maybe experts can chime in, but isn't oxygen barrier PEX code for potable water?

You can generally do the home runs by taking out a patch of drywall on each floor. I assume you have the electrician's drills to drill through plates and studs. Bathrooms get complicated because of the rat's nest of piping for vanities, tubs and toilets that are often on common 2x6 plumbing walls. Not sure how to best retrofit supports for the PEX at the undersink shutoff valves so they don't flop around. Best to avoid horizontal runs since code will require nailing plates at studs.

I've done quite a few plumbing mods in my house, but it's all copper. The key to sweating pipe inside walls is vacuum out the cobwebs, dust, and debris, wet everything with a spray bottle and have a fire extinguisher handy just in case. They also sell nifty heat shield blankets at the big box stores, and you can also use tinfoil as heat shields. Inspect thoroughly when done! You could go with Sharkbite fittings, but I never used them.

BTW, around here there are companies that advertise they will convert your old house to copper plumbing, but I bet it's not cheap.

[68blackbird]

Oxygen barrier is for in floor heating. PEX pipe allows air to pass through the pipe. The barrier keeps oxygen from traveling in through the pipe and into the water. Boilers that heat these systems are made of cast iron and will corrode inside if oxygen barrier pipe is not used.


Water systems don't need this barrier. So regular PEX is legal to use in potable water applications.

Rich

[DOC]

Suspect your work will need to have a permit and inspected for the insurance company to give the ok. Would also recommend talking with the county inspectors for their expectations if running through the walls that they cannot see.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by DOC

Suspect your work will need to have a permit and inspected for the insurance company to give the ok. Would also recommend talking with the county inspectors for their expectations if running through the walls that they cannot see.

Spoken like a true bureaucrat.

[Deadhead]

90* done with the rough-in on this project. Tried my idea of fishing pipes using the existing quest. Would recommend it. Was also able to utilize the removal of all the Light-o-lier can trims to peer into the ceilings and find pipe routes etc. Has saved some sheetrock patching for sure. If you use a connector and a sparse amount of tape, you can sneak it through the existing straps, saving some BS. Main thing is you have to have a helper to push while you guide and slightly pull old pipe out. Use full sticks of Pex to aid in flexibility. I cut mine in 10' lengths at the supply house and kept them straight. In 1 or 2 places I did as suggested, and just abandon old route. Plumber caught hell on this job. Went ahead of duct man (not usually a good idea) and had to drill it all in. If had gone post duct, would have had chases to run in as I did. Sizing was done right. Took 3/4 to nearly all locations, which means I have a ton of 1/2" fittings left. Hooking up fixtures, insulating, some final strapping, test, and this will be one system I have confidence in in the house. Also enabled me to check out a lot of the other work & know what is there. Sealing & insulating all the metal duct work is going to save a ton on my propane bill.

Will say that I did not find a single failure in fitting or pipe. This house was built in '92, so last incarnation with copper fittings and crimps. My main reasons for replacing were for resale, insurance and peace of mind. Despite the fact that the stuff is thin and wimpy, I saw no issues. Well system, so no chemical issues or high pressure.

[The Boss]

Congratulations!

Never easy fixing somebody's work.