[ponyakr]

Unless that engine has dish pistons, wouldn't that Voodoo cam tend to increase the possibility of detonation ?

With flat top pistons, those engines are listed at 10.25 CR.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/enginesearch4.htm


"...ra4 copy , rhoades lifterts as well .. love the sound but as you know does really devolp power until the upper rpms..."

That has not been my experience at all. In my 455 bracket engines, the power range was from idle to 5000rpm, although they would go to 5500. I'd estimate the hp at 400 @ 5000 rpm, and the torque at 500 @ about 3000 rpm. But, I had the 72cc heads on most of those engines. Don't know if the extra compression made any difference or not. I don't think so, because my 1st 455 came out of a 70 GTO. It was the original engine, so it had the #64 heads. The only change I made was the RA4 clone/Rhoads swap. In a '68 Bird, with a TH400, 13" stock converter, & 3.55 gears, it ran easy 12.40's & 50's, launching from an idle, & shifting at 5000.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Bob70Goat

thanks I currently have a ra4 copy , rhoades lifterts as well .. love the sound but as you know does really devolp power until the upper rpms, and for a weekend cruiser that occasionally gets romped on .. converter is a 2600 ( if I recall ) which may be part of problem but will be going 2004r , have 373 in rear

I run the same motor in my 70 gto,,455,,#64 ported by SD,,stock intake and ram air manifolds. Crower 60919,,(very close to RA4 cam ) with rhoads v max. 3.31 with 4 speed. All the low end you can use. Cant keep the tires hooked up even going WOT from idle....1st or 2nd gear. With 3.73 gears,rhoads and your auto the low end should be ridiculous.

[ponyakr]

Maybe there is an ignition and/or carb tuning problem. There are just too many guys who have run the 455 / 041 cam / Rhoads lifters combo, who have experience LOTS of low end torque, plenty of vac, and a good idle.

So, I have to suspect ignition or carb problems, rather than having a cam that is too big.

Probably be a good idea to set the ignition curve for the total mechanical advance to come in by no later than 3000 rpm. Some recommend 2500. Most(but not all) iron head Pontiacs seem to like between 34 & 36 degrees total mechanical advance. You can buy advance spring kits, with 3 sets of springs. Most say the weakest springs in the lits should not be used. But some combination of stock and/or 1 or more springs from the kit, will set your curve where it should be. MSD sells a kit. Crane has a kit for either HEI or points type dist, with adjustable vac adv included. And there are several cheaper kits, which all probably contain the same Chinese parts.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8428/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...qDAaAkgw8P8HAQ

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...0weight%20kits

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-929g/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66948c/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...1300/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-4933/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g5212/overview/

http://www.jegs.com/pt/Distributor+A...Kit/4294946058

When you set the total to the best for your engine, you may(or may not) need to limit the amount the advance weights can advance the timing. Let's say your optimum total is 34 degrees. If, at this setting, your initial timing is at say, only 10 degrees, at idle, you need to limit the advance weight mechanism, with a positive stop, so that you can increase your initial advance, for improved off idle power. There are different ways to do this, with different types of dist. With a stock HEI, it can be done with a screw in one of the extra holes in the bar, which the rotor attaches to. I recently did mine with a metric allen head screw, with the head under the bar.

There are a couple of pics & a mention of this mod, near the bottom of the page, at this link.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...EI_distributor

[AdamIsAdam]

This is a great thread and I just re-read the ENTIRE thing! (ouch!) So I'm bumping it up for those who have never seen it.

I'll ask my question of Cliff publicly so maybe others can benefit from it...

Cliff,
When I was considering a cam change a while back you were nice enough to make a suggestion. I have been doing other mods since then including finally installing my 1/2" fuel delivery (RobbMc) this week. Dyno session coming soon...

Anyway, my question is this:

How do you think the Ultradyne 288/296, 231/239 @ .050” cam on a 112LSA instead of 110. (Leave it on a 110 if you want a “choppy” idle and less vacuum at idle speed) or the Crower 60919 cam with the ICL at 109 and Rhoad’s lifters compares to the 041 with Rhoad's lifters?


For those who don't know, I've got a XE274 cam in my 469 stroker. Details are:

WAS A 400
o Bored and stroked to 469ci (4.19 x 4.25)
o Eagle crank
o “H” beam, rods
o Ross Pistons
o Fully balanced by Butler Performance
o 10.13 CR


o Cam: CompCam XE274H-10
 Adv Dur: 274 Int; 286 Exh
 Lobe Sep: 110
 Lift: 488 Int; 491 Exh (Net: 536 Int; 540 Exh with 1.65 rockers)

o Heads: #46 with screw in studs, 75cc chamber (Rebuilt May 2015)
 Ferrea Valves (Int: 2.11; Exh: 1.77)
 255 cfm at 527 lift
 1.65 roller rockers by Harland Sharp
 Comp Cams double springs
 Ported and polished
 Port matched to intake
 Screw in studs
 Crossover filled
 ARP Head Bolts

o Edelbrock Prototype P4B-Q4 Extensively Ported by SD with Cliff Ruggles
o Cliff Ruggles Custom Q-Jet
o MSD 6AL electronic ignition

• Clutch, Transmission, Rear
o McLeod Racing Clutch 75221-Super Street Pro
o Lakewood scatter shield
o Muncie M21 fully custom rebuild with hardened gears
o Hurst Competition Plus shifter
o Dual drive shaft safety loops
o Eaton Posi Unit, Timken Bearings
o 3.42 Motive Gears

[Cliff R]

The Crower 60919 and RAIV cam as basically the same thing, so expect the same results with either one. They work fine without the Rhoads lifters, ran my old 455 w/o them for quite a while. When I finally added Rhoads lifters to the cam vacuum at idle increased 2" and it also improved throttle response right off idle.....Cliff

[Cliff R]

To date everyone I've seen that built a 455 with one of those blocks over about 450hp has had troubles with them.......FWIW.....

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Crower # 60919?

[adeeos]

Yes, that is correct

[ponyakr]

".... low buck 455...Is there another inexpensive cam out there that may be a better choice?..."

From a low buck, inexpensive standpoint, I'd go with a Summit 2802 and some lifters & springs from Paul Spotts. The cam is $72.97 shipped. The lifters are $59 shipped. And the springs are $99 shipped. $72.97 + $59 + $99 = $230.97 Total
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2802

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hydrauli...xZODlz&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VSH3-Pontiac...NW0LgK&vxp=mtr

If you still wanna go with an 041 clone, the Melling SPC-8 cam is cheaper than the Crower 60919. Many agree that all the 041 clones are made by CMC and sold under several different brand names. Today, the Melling is $109.98 shipped from an Ebay store.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Camsh...RZMqws&vxp=mtr

Or, you can buy the cam & lifter kit, along with the springs listed above, from Paul Spotts, $175 + $99 = $274 Total.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Ram-...1Uwp5F&vxp=mtr

As always, with an 041 clone, I'd prefer the Rhoads original lifters with the Super Lube option. But, they're $100 more than the Spotts liifters, and they make a ticking sound that many don't like.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...w/make/pontiac

A few more cams that are in the same neighborhood, between the 2802 & the 041 clone are: Crane 283951, Voodoo 268, Crower 60243, and Howards 410051-14.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...IaAusEEALw_wcB

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1776&gid=287

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/pon...m-284-hdp.html

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...w/make/pontiac

Not sure how much difference there would be between all these cams, on the dyno. I think Cliff Ruggles has posted dyno specs for the Crower cams, and Paul Carter has posted dyno specs for the Voodoo cams.

"... Edlebrock carb..."

"...I'd like all I can get and still run pump gas, be reliable ect..."

I'd dump that E-carb & go with a good 800cfm Q-jet by Cliff, SMI, or some other good Q-jet builder.

[steve25]

Let's look at things in the way that the factory engineers did in regards to the strength of engine parts, that being that whenever possible they wanted a 2 to 1 strength ratio.

In light of this and there prove out test of 24 hours at 4500 rpm I propose this.

The last 400 cid motor topped out at 220 hp with that 557 block, if doubled the hp output to 440 the engineers would have told you your playing with Fire even at only 4500 rpm, now lets up the rpm to 5500 and you have now doubled the load on the main web of that 557 block, now if you add near another 1/4" of stroke over the 400 motors 3.750" your really asking for it and it's just a matter of time and how good your tune is!

[hurryinhoosier62]

Great article. It certainly explains why many of the muscle car engines of the 60s and 70s can't keep up with the modern muscle engines of today.

[scott-462]

Lots of cam talk here, most of which is over my head. From what I've read on this thread and others over the last few years is that my engine is over cammed. My engine build is in my signature. It feels strong down low, even with 2.5X gears it will spin both tires at a 30 mph roll. I now have 3.50 gears. So what's everyone's take on how they expect my engine to run or power it may make?

[tom s]

I just put a SP II in a 455,230-236 on a 112 in at 110,15 in of vac.HSD intake in stick shift car,will lug down to 1500 in OD with no bucking.Likes a 850 vac second Holley .Tom

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

ttt

Why?

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

Since there have been a couple of cam threads here lately i thought this one might be of some help. So much info in the archives through the years but i don't think they get searched enough.

Thanks, I've read it but got lost in the massive amounts of data, squirrels and disagreements

With that said it does have good info in it you just have to get your sifter out.

[Steve C.]

Here, now they don't have to get their sifter out

https://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/126-128.pdf


.

[pastry_chef]

Interesting build for comparison.
http://www.mondello.com/page9.html

Olds 455 - 4.25 stroke
10.9 compression
Comp cams 42-433-9 XR290HR - 110 LSA
500HP and 604ftlbs on 91 octane

[tempest1964]

Not being a wise-arse. I really don't know. What does ttt mean?

[Murf]

To the top.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk

[webfoot]

Why not? I had not seen this thread before and it has some good decisions, and now makes me think I bought the wrong cam!

Should probably be a sticky.