[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

TTB isn't it the "what ifs and failures" that started the bad wrapping of the CV'ies? No one is really sure what will happen until it's done. I wouldn't make assumptions, I'd talk about it after it's done.

What was all that about making assumptions and talking about it all after its done? If people had done that here from the start things might in fact be different. Instead, some folks seemed to get a kick out of posting negative things about CV-1's almost from the start.

That's why I suggested a few posts back that all the folks who have bashed this head over the years should instead stand back and let it be. Then if the head fails they can say it was on its own and for its own lack of merits.

But you know...those who have contributed to the problem can't even be honest with themselves, let alone anyone else. And they post comments indicating they were only asking questions........only pointing out facts........

No, they didn't have anything to do with the negativity here. But they're lying. To themselves and everyone else who has seen it. And trust me, there are many who have watched here and thought exactly what I am saying but never posted.

An example. John Marcella. Knowledgeable guy, offers a lot. Has this head in fact been around for 7 years with no appreciable results? No. Two and a half years ago I contacted Jim Roland about maybe buying a set. Hadn't been a set available for a little while and he wasn't sure there would be any more. Fast forward to now. Yes, there are sets out there from the first run, but not all that many. Nothing like what Edelbrock sold initially.

It took Edelbrock a few years to gain traction in the new Pontiac head with their HUGE name behind it and basically ZERO other comparably priced competition.

Realistically subtract 3 years from the 7 that John is quoting. During that say...4 years...of actual production a small number of those CV-1's sold ended up on running engines in cars. Like anything else some others were part of longer term projects, etc.

And we all know Jim Roland does NOT have the Edelbrock name behind him. I've met Pontiac guys who are never on this forum...some have never heard of this forum. This is the main contact Jim had with the Pontiac world for the most part.

Unlike the E-head, the CV-1 head was scrutinized from the start right here. I saw it. The E-head was welcomed. You say the E-head had no problems? It came with crappy springs, flowed a measly 265 cfm and yes, it did have an oil drain back issue in some applications. I know someone who experienced it.

The bolt bosses in the heads were also not changed by Edelbrock because they were sitting at lunch one day and said, "Hey...lets change something on those Pontiac heads for the heck of it. Throw those Pontiac guys a curveball. Hehe."

The E-head evolved because a bunch of people bought them and threw a LOT of money at them. Spent a hell of a lot of time trying new things on the race track. They got welded on and played with every which way.

The CV-1 has not had that much time on the race track. Give it some time....I mean REALLY give it some time. Without the BS. Maybe it'll prove itself, maybe it won't.

As for me having something against E-heads? Oh heck no. I own a set I like.

P.S. - Bill was right on the mark explaining how I meant there were many heads that could make 3000 hp. Truth is Marty P. made 1600 hp or so with a set of iron heads what...20 yrs ago? Everything has improved since then, from turbos to blocks to.....

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

What other Pontiac heads have made 3000 horsepower?

To my knowledge NO Pontiac head has made 3,000 HP!
E-heads just like the Tigers and HP's are old school, that's not to say they can't make HP they are just old school. For US (Pontiac Racers) to make that next jump we need more ......AKA....RA5, CV, Warp 6 or whatever else that I missed, it's that simple!



GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

To my knowledge NO Pontiac head has made 3,000 HP!
E-heads just like the Tigers and HP's are old school, that's not to say they can't make HP they are just old school. For US (Pontiac Racers) to make that next jump we need more ......AKA....RA5, CV, Warp 6 or whatever else that I missed, it's that simple!



GTO George

They are members here, maybe they will chime in.... there is porbably a lot you don't now George.

How 'bout them Lions?

[Stan Weiss]

I have been very busy doing keyboard racer stuff and just got to read this. A lot of butt kissing and pure lack of reading comprehension on display here.

Some of you at your finest.

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Paul,
We must have on different rose colored glasses on when looking at some of these posts.

It is clear to me based on a question I ask you about Lil Jack's new combination and then the question you asked Lil Jack that we clearly are not talking the same language.

Maybe google can translate my NE US American to your MidWest US American.

Stan

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
We must have on different rose colored glasses on when looking at some of these posts.

It is clear to me based on a question I ask you about Lil Jack's new combination and then the question you asked Lil Jack that we clearly are not talking the same language.

Maybe google can translate my NE US American to your MidWest US American.

Stan

I have no idea what you are talking about...maybe you have a calculator that would help.

In the mean time please tell me about your Pontiac cars and their accomplishments. I'm curious.

BTW what exactly would you like me to ask LJ about his combination?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I have no idea what you are talking about...maybe you have a calculator that would help.

In the mean time please tell me about your Pontiac cars and their accomplishments. I'm curious.

BTW what exactly would you like me to ask LJ about his combination?

Im also lost as to what Stan is trying to say??

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Im also lost as to what Stan is trying to say??

Alllow me to translate... ￦+¥<^~-$÷%=§....
You understand now?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Alllow me to translate... ￦+¥<^~-$÷%=§....
You understand now?

Thanks for the clarification. I understand perfectly now.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I have no idea what you are talking about...maybe you have a calculator that would help.

In the mean time please tell me about your Pontiac cars and their accomplishments. I'm curious.

BTW what exactly would you like me to ask LJ about his combination?

Paul,
It is very simple we both read the same posts and come away thinking that they mean something different.

As far as what question, I asked you and then was quoted above. Don't worry about.

Stan

[Scott Roberts]

Can we get back to the smack talk and personal insults.. It's a much better read..

[GTO Dan]

TimeWarp - if I recall correctly, and I am getting old so my memory might be failing, there was a lot of hate for the Edelbrocks. Mostly by the purist that thought anything not made by PMD could not be good, by those who said it would be a hassle and expensive to switch to round port headers and a new intake and let's not forget all the guys that thought they had a unicorn because they had PMD round port heads. Wenzlers were maligned and attacked as were KRE D-ports and HPs. I am not saying it right then or now.

Performance and results quiets most, but never all, critics. Unless of course they are just busting balls.

[TimeWarp]

Stan, yes, I know...but actually I'd like to mend the fences, not continue dividing. The whole E-head vs CV-1 thing could stop, if everyone just backed off and let it alone. I would just like to see Jim Roland have a chance to get more heads out there, and then people can decide if its a good product. People can play with them and do the same things people did with E-heads.

I get it that racing is competitive. But we can be competitive without being total asses. At least...all the time. I've been an ass before. I'm no saint. But I'm really tired of what I call the "Yellow Bullet Way". The trash talk way. Thats why I guess I really like that saying, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."

What happened to respect for your fellow guy? Dont have to like everyone. But if you don't, why not just walk away? Seems like the internet has just allowed the worst in people to come out.

Guess that's why I have respect for guys like Fulton. No, he's not the only one. There are lots of others. But I for one would like to see things change back.

And I'm just asking people to consider the idea.

[pontibeast]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Stan, yes, I know...but actually I'd like to mend the fences, not continue dividing. The whole E-head vs CV-1 thing could stop, if everyone just backed off and let it alone. I would just like to see Jim Roland have a chance to get more heads out there, and then people can decide if its a good product. People can play with them and do the same things people did with E-heads.

I get it that racing is competitive. But we can be competitive without being total asses. At least...all the time. I've been an ass before. I'm no saint. But I'm really tired of what I call the "Yellow Bullet Way". The trash talk way. That's why I guess I really like that saying, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."

What happened to respect for your fellow guy? Don't have to like everyone. But if you don't, why not just walk away? Seems like the internet has just allowed the worst in people to come out.

Guess that's why I have respect for guys like Fulton. No, he's not the only one. There are lots of others. But I for one would like to see things change back.

And I'm just asking people to consider the idea.

As someone who is not really in a camp in this as my heads are 6X-8's that only flow 260/220 I have to say this seems to be the best idea put forth in this whole thread. Saying racing is competitive but we can be competitive without being asses about it sums it up. There are a lot of very skilled head porters, racers, engineers and tuners here on PY and I have learned a ton from guys Like Paul K that take the time to help me with my recent engine even though I didn't buy my heads from him and others that give me really good advice without charging me a penny. I get the whole alpha male thing believe me, but at some point it would seem like a good idea to let some of this **** go and give each other the space and respect to develop their ideas and then see who can walk the walk at Norwalk and other tracks. Dyno numbers are impressive to the little guys like me but what is more impressive is how fast these cars are and what tech will filter down to help me go faster with my iron block for a reasonable price. I would love to buy a set of KRE, Edelbrock, or other aluminum heads to make my old Pontiac faster. I need to save up and then I will hopefully be able to make a choice based on real, legit numbers not on an opinion touted by one side or another. I am lost in the tech at this level but I rely on this forum to be a place to get real tech advice not anoth TOBT section from the Bullet. I love YB for the **** talking and chest thumping but this has been a different place for me since I joined a couple years ago and I hate to see it devolve into name calling and personal sniping. Good luck to all of you guys that are taking the financial and reputation risks involved in playing at the upper levels of our sport. Just remember there are a lot of people hoping to see you succeed and make things better for us cheap bastards hoping to move up some day.

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by pontibeast

As someone who is not really in a camp in this as my heads are 6X-8's that only flow 260/220 I have to say this seems to be the best idea put forth in this whole thread. Saying racing is competitive but we can be competitive without being asses about it sums it up. There are a lot of very skilled head porters, racers, engineers and tuners here on PY and I have learned a ton from guys Like Paul K that take the time to help me with my recent engine even though I didn't buy my heads from him and others that give me really good advice without charging me a penny. I get the whole alpha male thing believe me, but at some point it would seem like a good idea to let some of this **** go and give each other the space and respect to develop their ideas and then see who can walk the walk at Norwalk and other tracks. Dyno numbers are impressive to the little guys like me but what is more impressive is how fast these cars are and what tech will filter down to help me go faster with my iron block for a reasonable price. I would love to buy a set of KRE, Edelbrock, or other aluminum heads to make my old Pontiac faster. I need to save up and then I will hopefully be able to make a choice based on real, legit numbers not on an opinion touted by one side or another. I am lost in the tech at this level but I rely on this forum to be a place to get real tech advice not anoth TOBT section from the Bullet. I love YB for the **** talking and chest thumping but this has been a different place for me since I joined a couple years ago and I hate to see it devolve into name calling and personal sniping. Good luck to all of you guys that are taking the financial and reputation risks involved in playing at the upper levels of our sport. Just remember there are a lot of people hoping to see you succeed and make things better for us cheap bastards hoping to move up some day.

I get that totally. I like a little variety mixed in with my performance. So I like the idea of a stout set of E-heads on one car, and CV-1's on another. I'm looking at a set of well developed high ports too

But yeah...the Yellow Bullet thing never appealed to me. I come from a background where the quiet guys were the ones who got it done. The ones always thumping their chests were usually full of BS. And that usually seems to be the way of it.

Just like the ones who brag about how good they are in the sack.

But its also the internet mentality these days. People can say things today with no consequences because it doesnt matter...mostly they'll never meet the people they say nasty things to online. So its created this atmosphere of.....nastiness.

Gets to the point where its not even that they're brave behind a keyboard kind of thing. Its like they just don't know better anymore and whatever manners they were taught by their parents have disappeared.

And before you guys say anything...I actually dont think that way of you Paul. Or you slowbird. Or Jack even. I wouldn't have posted on here if I thought you were really like that.

I just think this got carried away. I'd like to see the fences mended. I'd like to see respect. Both sides. But its going to take an effort from us all. I'm not even talking about a kinder gentler world. I'm talking respect for your fellow racer.

Grind him into the pavement on the track. Shake hands. Or don't. But let's stop the stuff on here and work together.

[TimeWarp]

Dan - You are correct to an extent. But I dont feel to this extent. And again, Edelbrock sold a LOT of heads, so they proliferated regardless.

Jack, they were out of production for at least 3 years. Meaning none being produced. Very few (compared to E-heads) out there. How many do you know racing right now?

Mike, thank you for the definition. But I was aware of it, and my whole point was that whether you use the word badger, harrass, or bash..........when folks have done it against the CV-1 head or people talking in favor of it......it was often just called "asking questions", or "stating facts".

But I'M badgering? lol

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Dan - You are correct to an extent. But I dont feel to this extent. And again, Edelbrock sold a LOT of heads, so they proliferated regardless.

Jack, they were out of production for at least 3 years. Meaning none being produced. Very few (compared to E-heads) out there. How many do you know racing right now?

Mike, thank you for the definition. But I was aware of it, and my whole point was that whether you use the word badger, harrass, or bash..........when folks have done it against the CV-1 head or people talking in favor of it......it was often just called "asking questions", or "stating facts".

But I'M badgering? lol

Edelbrocks did indeed sell a lot of heads in the early years before they were proven because they advertised to some degree, had them in their catalogue and listed in performance catalogs (i.e. Summit), etc. They didn't need to rely on Internet forums (mostly because they didn't exist) to get the word out. But remember KRE has sold pallets of heads and they didn't have a big marketing and distribution engine either.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

my whole point was that whether you use the word badger, harrass, or bash..........when folks have done it against the CV-1 head or people talking in favor of it......it was often just called "asking questions", or "stating facts".

What is it called when CV1 guys talk unfavorably about Eheads?

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

What is it called when CV1 guys talk unfavorably about Eheads?

Yes, because we know there are whole threads devoted to bashing E-heads? Whole groups of people jumping on E-heads is it? Point them out. I have a feeling you're going to tell me to look them up myself.

Again, you won't even admit your own bias or having participated in any of it. But guess what? I'm not even here pointing fingers.

After years of watching on the sidelines here I've seen enough to just ask that it stop now. Let it go. Let the CV-1 head either stand or fail on its own without further vitriol.

And I'm not naming you Paul. I'm talking everyone. Give guys like Jim Roland and Dick Fulton a break. If there are those of you that don't like Bill just don't exchange words with him.

This is the ONLY section on PY that acts like this, and its about a dozen or so people.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Yes, because we know there are whole threads devoted to bashing E-heads? Whole groups of people jumping on E-heads is it?



Again, you won't even admit your own bias or having participated in any of it.

.

Atleast you are consistly wrong..... there has been threads devoted to bashing E-heads. Ask Calvin he started atleast one of them.

My bias is the truth, not distorted facts.