[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 535 tall deck

Iva always heard that torque and horsepower cross at 5252rpm. How does that work, or does it, on an engine like this?

Baddass ride for sure Mike. Thanx for the 'behind the scenes' view.
Kevin

Most engine dynos measure torque, and calcualte HP using what Mike said.

Stan

[Elarson]

Horsepower = torque (ft-lbs) x rpm/ 5252.

So when rpm is 5252, then 5252/5252 = 1 and then torque and horsepower have to be equal.

Eric

[[email protected]]

Maybe I didn't word that right.
Since peaks are at 8600 and 7700 does that affect the 5252? Now that I've been awake awhile and my brains working a little better i realize that it doesn't.
Back to topic

[S/st 54]

Great Job Mike! LOL if I would have said hey my motor made 1002hp@6100 everyone would've busted balls and said it didn't happen unless you post the dyno sheet....I'll take your word for it.I know how hard you worked at it and I think it showed on the track and if others didn't think so ill just say you were gaining on it!


So I thought this was a build thread. Soooo what bore/stroke?what length rod? Big end size little end size? Pin weight? Piston dome? How much? Was piston in/out of the hole any? Ring gaps? What was the Vacuum? What rocker ratio? Combustion chamber cc per cylinder?Intake and exh runner volume?Int&exh valve sizes? Bearing clearances rod and main? Crank end play? What gen timing belt drive did you use? Piston to wall clearance?What oil modifications did you do?did you do any mods to the bearings? If so what?what Oil pump? What brand parts did you use? What size header tubes did you use? Did you use a merge collector? What size did you choke it down to before it exits? What was the collector size? Did you step the tubes any? Could you at least tell us if you used a 4-7swap or a LS firing order?

You did a kickA$$ job getting to that point! Thanks for being willing to offer up any info. But what I'm asking is HOW DID YOU GET THERE? WHAT IS YOUR PLAN OF ATTACK TO FIND THE EXTRA HP?



And oh yeah GOOD LUCK! Thanks again!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Hi Mike,
I know you have been waiting for me to post.

Very nice job. Great numbers.

Another advantage of moving the torque up in the RPM range is the ability to run more rear end gear which gives greater torque multiplication.

If you get your HP peak to 8600 and it holds on like you say, I think you will be leaving some et on the table if you only shift at 9000.

Stan

So what is the shift number Stan? I know what my number would be for the shift.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

If you get your HP peak to 8600 and it holds on like you say, I think you will be leaving some et on the table if you only shift at 9000.

Stan

True. Unfortunately we never had a good outing in the car. The runs I made were shifted at 83 to 8500. There's more left.

Trying to control piston speed some. And there's no sense beating the snot out of it when the car was obviously not performing correctly on the starting line. We realize we need to shift higher. We just need a little time.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Great Job Mike! LOL if I would have said hey my motor made 1002hp@6100 everyone would've busted balls and said it didn't happen unless you post the dyno sheet....I'll take your word for it.I know how hard you worked at it and I think it showed on the track and if others didn't think so ill just say you were gaining on it!


So I thought this was a build thread. Soooo what bore/stroke?what length rod? Big end size little end size? Pin weight? Piston dome? How much? Was piston in/out of the hole any? Ring gaps? What was the Vacuum? What rocker ratio? Combustion chamber cc per cylinder?Intake and exh runner volume?Int&exh valve sizes? Bearing clearances rod and main? Crank end play? What gen timing belt drive did you use? Piston to wall clearance?What oil modifications did you do?did you do any mods to the bearings? If so what?what Oil pump? What brand parts did you use? What size header tubes did you use? Did you use a merge collector? What size did you choke it down to before it exits? What was the collector size? Did you step the tubes any? Could you at least tell us if you used a 4-7swap or a LS firing order?

You did a kickA$$ job getting to that point! Thanks for being willing to offer up any info. But what I'm asking is HOW DID YOU GET THERE? WHAT IS YOUR PLAN OF ATTACK TO FIND THE EXTRA HP?



And oh yeah GOOD LUCK! Thanks again!

Oh my goodness Jason. I'll try to tackle your questions I'm sure I will miss some answers along the way. Some answers I may not give, depending on the question and where the answer came from.

[mike leech]

I got a lot of cleaning and prep done today. For tonight will mostly concentrate on the short block.

Obviously an aftermarket block is required. Not as obviously Iron blocks make more power than aluminum blocks. It's the way it is. I know there are some that I believe or fantasize about one brand of aftermarket block that makes just as much power in aluminum as Iron blocks do. That's just not going to happen.

Just because an aftermarket bought cost $3000 does not mean it's ready to run for an engine like this. I can tell you to absolutely expect to pay another $2000 in machine work. And the block will need a lot of prep. Big camp tunnels but a big lifters with bushings are required. You're not getting anywhere near this power level without it.

The block I am running has been repaired a couple of times unfortunately. It's all part of the deal though. EVERYONE running at this level has had engine failures for one reason or another. Sometimes parts just break. If you have to save for 10 years to build an engine like this you should probably not build an engine like this. It's going to require maintenance and parts are going to break.
If you're not handy unable to fabricate, weld, use instruments and assemble engines this is going to get extremely expensive. It's time-consuming and tedious work. And the parts are expensive. If you're paying someone else to do that for you expect it to cost a lot.

[mike leech]

Theres a couple bearing issues we have had to deal with and find ways of overcoming. The first is when you use a crankshaft with large radius ground into them you can have an issue at the rear main bearing. That's caught us once a couple years ago early and a Dyno session. Basically you want to grind about .030 off the very end/rear section of the main bearing to make sure there's plenty of clearance for the large radius. The second modification is drilling a secondary oiling hall at about 8 o'clock position to deposit more oil. This also requires trenching out behind the main bearing to connect to the oil hole.

[Aaron Quinton]

The shift RPM maximizes the area under the power curve between gear ranges. The shift rpm changes depending on what ranges are in the trans to maximize the area under the power curve. That is physics and what carries the day, Stan knows that. I really wished we could all get past the childish bs and share some real information within the Pontiac community. It really wears me down and I understand why some capable people avoid the place like the plague. And is the key reason I don't participate much here. I suspect others feel the same.

And Mike thanks again for sharing some real information, it's appreciated! Share some real info with Stan and utilize his math abilities and I suspect we all could learn something. Math and physics don't lye and Stan has it under control. It takes real world experience from the best to calibrate assumptions in the math. Crap in is crap out. There are guys here that can provide good input to the rest. Stan has demonstrated a good ability of math and physics. I think a lot of folks could benefit from partnering with this capability.

PPTTFMF!

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So what is the shift number Stan? I know what my number would be for the shift.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

Radius area

[mike leech]

And as far as crankshafts go. You can try with a Chinese forging. Shorter stroke and less RPM you might get away with it. Good luck if you try.

You're looking at a $3000 plus crankshaft. Its probably going to need some additional prep work. Just saying.

As far as oil clearance goes we are running .0033- .0034 mains and rods. We tried running les to control oil more. The engine did not like it. So we increased clearance.

This crank is a Bryant. It has A Micro polished finish.

[mike leech]

As far as connecting rods go, obviously steel or aluminum are the choices. At least for us normal people.

These rods are Carrillo customs. Where most people go wrong is they think they can just run a shelf part and save money. That is likely all they will accomplish, saving money. The rod should be configured as long as possible for an application like this. these steel rods weigh the same as the aluminum rods we used to run. Double the cost for five times the life.

We also feel these rods are worth some power in our application. As with all the parts Scott Brown specified and worked with Carrillo on the design for this application.

And yes those are coated pins. Try not to get it all over yourself Stan. It's one of the few places there are coatings in this engine.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

The shift RPM maximizes the area under the power curve between gear ranges. The shift rpm changes depending on what ranges are in the trans to maximize the area under the power curve. That is physics and what carries the day, Stan knows that. I really wished we could all get past the childish bs and share some real information within the Pontiac community. It really wears me down and I understand why some capable people avoid the place like the plague. And is the key reason I don't participate much here. I suspect others feel the same.

And Mike thanks again for sharing some real information, it's appreciated! Share some real info with Stan and utilize his math abilities and I suspect we all could learn something. Math and physics don't lye and Stan has it under control. It takes real world experience from the best to calibrate assumptions in the math. Crap in is crap out. There are guys here that can provide good input to the rest. Stan has demonstrated a good ability of math and physics. I think a lot of folks could benefit from partnering with this capability.

PPTTFMF!

I appreciate what you're saying Aaron. But I think were pretty good on our math and physics over here. We seem to manage OK.

[Aaron Quinton]

And that is exactly what I'm talking about.

I really appreciate the data you are willing to share. Thank you sir, it's appreciated in the Pontiac community.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by mike leech

... These rods are Carrillo customs...

I had never seen that configuration of sides of the big ends. Is the main purpose to increase lube flow out of the journal/bearing to carry away heat better? Can you run less side clearance because of it? Does this design have much of a "track record" of success? Thanks.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Jack Gifford

I had never seen that configuration of sides of the big ends. Is the main purpose to increase lube flow out of the journal/bearing to carry away heat better? Can you run less side clearance because of it? Does this design have much of a "track record" of success? Thanks.

Lighter and carries heat out with lighter oils. Pro-stock and comp. parts like these i would not have were it not for my good friend scotty brown. Hes a bad dude with lots of connections.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

The shift RPM maximizes the area under the power curve between gear ranges. The shift rpm changes depending on what ranges are in the trans to maximize the area under the power curve. That is physics and what carries the day, Stan knows that. I really wished we could all get past the childish bs and share some real information within the Pontiac community. It really wears me down and I understand why some capable people avoid the place like the plague. And is the key reason I don't participate much here. I suspect others feel the same.

And Mike thanks again for sharing some real information, it's appreciated! Share some real info with Stan and utilize his math abilities and I suspect we all could learn something. Math and physics don't lye and Stan has it under control. It takes real world experience from the best to calibrate assumptions in the math. Crap in is crap out. There are guys here that can provide good input to the rest. Stan has demonstrated a good ability of math and physics. I think a lot of folks could benefit from partnering with this capability.

PPTTFMF!

Aaron, Both Stan and I deal in Physics and Math every day. I would not be surprised a bit if our numbers were very close on the additional rpm needed.

Physics and the basic formulas for math do not change, no matter what the engine.
And as you said in other words, garbage in is garbage out.

As far as quoting me in your comment, maybe you should study the equations a bit yourself and then you could also partner in the threads.

If I remember correctly, I have been pretty close on the HP numbers a few times with my physics and math calculations. Keep posting Mike, looks like a great thread.

Tom V.

[455firebird1969]

Originally Posted by mike leech

The second modification is drilling a secondary oiling hall at about 8 o'clock position to deposit more oil. This also requires trenching out behind the main bearing to connect to the oil hole.

I noticed the second hole in the first picture posted. Would you post a picture of the trench that connects the oil feed holes?

[Jim Zeek]

Originally Posted by mike leech

good friend scotty brown. Hes a bad dude with lots of connections.

scott speced out a cam for my new shortblock using my heads as they are. if we do anything further with this engine in the future, I plan on working with scott.