[Darth Menace]

Hey I have a 69 custom s convertible and last year i installed new Moog front and rear springs. Oddly the front Sat 3.5 inches from the top of the tire to the wheel well lip. This was horrible looking in my opinion. So I am able to get an alignment paid for by insurance so I decided to put on new tie rods and cut the springs before I do that. Anyway, I cut one coil and it went down .5 inches, I cut another and it went down another .5 inches. I was tempted to do the math and cut off As many coils thinking every coil would lower it .5 inches. I fought the temptation and cut off one more and it dropped to a very nice level. It doesn't look low rider and doesn't look like it was on stilts.

Now when the steering wheel is turned to the left, it rubs on the passenger side front....how do I go about trimming the wheel well do it doesn't rub?

Next, I think it might be unrelated, but I cannot get the sway bar installed properly. If I mount the drivers side at the bushings than the pass side bushing sits so (about 2 inches from the mounting holes) high that it obviously won't bolt in. If I mount it at the pass bushing first then the spot where the sway bar links go sits so high that the link would never stretch that high and the drivers side spot sits so low it is about 2 inches from the lower control arm hole. What in the world am I doing here?

It pulls a bit to the right and I assume that is more for the expected alignment. Is there anything else I should do prior to the alignment so it can end up nicely

Before

After.

[68gtoMN]

Darth, a couple of things. You certainly keep working at it and I commend you for sticking with everything! First, if your car sat that high with the springs installed, something was wrong with your spring selection. Did you choose AC springs or HD suspension springs vs. what was called for? Second - cutting a spring will drop the height be effectively change the spring rate upward making the ride harsher, not softer. Third, the issues you mention here seem to indicate an issue with the alignment of suspension components (scraping/rubbing on turns and sway bar attachment). If you really desire to lower your car, start with the proper spring and / OR consider lowering spindles that replace your stock spindle but retain stock spring rate and travel.

Which springs did you use?

[Darth Menace]

I will have to check the springs I bought and get back to you. It was one of those things which was taking a gamble. Do I buy new springs, or cut the existing ones. I studied up on these springs many times before buying so I am almost sure I bought the proper ones. I didn't like the ride height so I cut the current ones in hopes that I could get a nice ride height. I am not worried about the softer/harder ride as long as I can get rid of the rubbing and have a good alignment

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[rexs73gto]

Darth, I think while you cut the springs you may not have got them back in there saddle & thats why you were only getting the car to lower each time when you cut the coils about 1/2 inch. Usually when you cut 1 full coil off you'll get about 1" to 1 1/2 " lower. If you didn't get the coil back in the saddle correctly it will not sit right & won't get the correct amount of drop . I think now whats happened you got the spring back in the saddle correctly & thats why it seemed to drop so much more all at once. There really is no way to trim the fender or fender well to give you more room without a lot of body work. I think you now need new springs & if you want it to sit right & ride right & handle the way the car should along with being able to hook your sway bars back up , you need the new springs that are called for & as suggested buy a set of drop spindles so everything lines up where it should. The std. 2" drop springs will drop your front end about where it is now , just a bit higher so your tires won't rub & you won't have the problems that your having right now. But at present I think your springs are just garage art now.

[marxjunk]

One coil maybe one and a hlf is all you should ever cut....ever..if you cut more you need a diff spring..you can't keep cutting..now your camber is so screwed up it probably will be hard to align..you change the whole geometry..

Sounds like the coils aren't seated properly either as already stated

[Darth Menace]

Odd, because I made sure they were seated back in the slots where it originally goes. I have yet to log in and look at what springs I got, they very possibly could be the wrong ones, but doubtful I made the mistake of putting them not in the correct position. I have made a mistake or two in my life, so who knows

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[marxjunk]

you really have to look theres a grove stamped into the lower control arm its conical..the end of a coil actually slides in to a specific place anywhere but that spot it raises the car..it can happen to anyone...its easy for it to move..once the weight of the car is on it..its locks it in and is rare for it to slip on its own back in the right spot..

its happened top me several times it just is part of it

i bet you have BBC chevelle springs in there...especially from the first pic the way it looks...cutting springs is dicey...it changes the spring and it gets harder and harsher every coil you cut off..

the thing will change lanes on its own if the front bounces hard...i lived thru the whole s-10 craze and scraping the ground was about right...i learned a lot..so i go back to my 1 to 1 1/2 coil max...

[Darth Menace]

So the next question. Should I take it in and see if it can be properly aligned, or chalk it up to error and not drive it until I get new springs?

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[rohrt]

I have not had the best luck with Moog springs either. Maybe just luck of the draw?

I would look at getting some RideTech The dual-rate spring from the StreetGrip Line as a replacement for the front. I'm looking at going this direction myself.
http://www.ridetech.com/store/1968-1...ip-system.html

As for the rub If its just barely touching I would think some added caster may be worth a try. Either with just shims or with some aftermarket A-arms.

Get the springs sorted out first and then go to the Alignment shop.

[Darth Menace]

Well this super stinks. I now wish I had of just kept the super tall springs. At least it could drive when it was on stilts vs being a no-rider. I will park it for a while until the funds get better...now is not the time, have a family of 5 living with me because their city was evacuated because of forest fires up here. I guess my spring concern is minor in the grand scheme of things. I will just park it for the time being. At least the viper still loves me haha. Thanks for the help guys

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[69goatboy]

Another option to consider is lowering springs.
I know some do not like them, but that was the route I choose and I'm happy with the stance and the way it drives.

I went with the Hotchkis springs for a SBC with A/C, IIRC. Advertised as a 1-1/2" drop.

[Darth Menace]

Yeah my issue is that this is the first set of front springs installed and they are said to be factory height and instead were 3.5 inches too high at least

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[rohrt]

Another thing to think about is that springs do settle a bit after a few weeks of driving.

Also make sure you tighten the bushing while the car is on the ground. If you tightened while the car was jacked up then it may sit higher then it should.

[rexs73gto]

I think if you look in the service manual you'll find that the way the new springs you put in were pretty close to the correct height for the car. New from the factory a GTO sits high in the normal stance. What your trying to do is make it sit lower then it should , plus you have to remember that the car is 46 years old & the springs that were in the car were low because of the age & normal sag of the age of springs. So when you put in the new springs it is going to sit higher then you think it should. Measure it & you'll find I think that it was sitting where it should be. The cars always sit high in the front & low in the back. Thats why we always put air shocks on the cars to lift them up. I put new springs on my 73 GTO after it was 28 years old & it sits higher then I remembered so I got out some old pics & saw the car when it was new & yes it sat up just as high when it was new. But It has come down a little bit but still I think I'll have to install 2 inch lower spindles for it to sit where I want it to. In the 1st pic it looked to be sitting correct fro a car with new springs. Just where the factory put it.

[69goatboy]

Not sure what kind of stance you're after Darth, but here's the stance on mine using the lowering springs. The back is slightly higher than the front (opposite of the stock stance), but it was the look I was going for. Also the tires in back are taller than the front, which obviously also adds to it. Besides the 4 springs, the front suspension is stock, the rear is tubular BMR with adj uppers and a 1" sway.

[Darth Menace]

Hmmm, that is odd. Going to the car shows and Pontiac get together I have never seen any car sit that high. In fact I have had it brought up to me numerous times how high it hits. Not second guessing you because you would know better than me. No offence to the factory stance but it just wasn't for me. Anyway, I guess if I was to ruin something, some $100 front springs arent end of the world.

I asked a number of local Pontiac owners and there were no real suggestions on lowering it's stance other than new springs, so it was a gamble that I lost. Like I said, I will just wait for these people to leave, and buy proper springs once I have to stop feeding/housing them and funds improve. On a somewhat related note about these huge fires in Alberta, I hear Russia and the USA offered us assistance to put out the fires and we refused the assistance....crap like this is what makes me hate being Canadian sometime.

Also, I brought it and got the alignment done and everything steers straight and the steering wheel is straight, so that must have been the tie rod installation that put it out of whack. Like I said this was paid for by insurance so I am out nothing, but don't worry I will find some proper springs in the very near future.

I love this car now that it is registered and on the road, but sometimes it seems like it is two steps forward and one step back.

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[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

Not sure what kind of stance you're after Darth, but here's the stance on mine using the lowering springs. The back is slightly higher than the front (opposite of the stock stance), but it was the look I was going for. Also the tires in back are taller than the front, which obviously also adds to it. Besides the 4 springs, the front suspension is stock, the rear is tubular BMR with adj uppers and a 1" sway.

69goatboy..THAT is the stance I want. Oh well, onto the next project (new radio knobs from Ames. I am SURE I won't mess this one up )

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[Darth Menace]

I thought I posted this from my cell but perhaps not. This is the alignment printout

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