[tom s]

Bart,are you going to the show this sat?I still have your dip stick and tube in my trunk!Tom

[grrrrregg!!!]

Is your builder in Nor Cal also, if you don't want to name the shop can you give the city.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by b-man

Dougan's in Riverside did all the machine work on my recent 421 HO build.

Top-notch work and great to work with.

I've heard of them. They do a LOT of the magazine project engine machine work. Excellent reputation.

[Lee]

Sounds like somebody is using aftermarket fasteners, but factory torque specs.

[Will]

Around here the problem is finding someone who can grind a crank properly. Bearings don't live long if the journals have runout and rough finishes.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Will

Around here the problem is finding someone who can grind a crank properly. Bearings don't live long if the journals have runout and rough finishes.

Shouldn't be that difficult. By run-out, I assume you mean taper?

[Will]

Shouldn't be that difficult....? No, it shouldn't be, you're right. So why is it?

Runout /= taper

Run-out or runout is an inaccuracy of rotating mechanical systems, specifically that the tool or shaft does not rotate exactly in line with the main axis

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Will

Shouldn't be that difficult....? No, it shouldn't be, you're right. So why is it?

Runout /= taper

Good question, Will. People not taking the time to setup the grinder correctly, not dressing the stone enough times during the grinding process, coolant breaking down (i.e., ph level off, dirty filter, coolant concentration off), not using enough coolant flow while grinding, too fast cutting rate, too slow cutting rate and simply just not giving a damn. I'll give you an example: if I was grinding 15 6BT Cummings cranks, I would dress the stone after grinding 5. Half way through, I would shut down the stone drive and check the radius on the stone. Our RA spec on crank journals was 15 or less when it came off the grinder. After micropolishing, an RA of 5-7 was the requirement. If they're grinding crank journals oblong AND with too much taper(.0002 is max on a V8 crank journal), I would suggest "neutralizing"them to resolve the problem. That's just plain, old STUPIDITY...

[Will]

There was one shop around here, about 30 miles South in Tacoma that I could trust and they went out of business a couple years ago.

I haven't built any engines since then so I really don't know where to go now. I've had several cranks screwed up by other shops. Got one 428 crank that looked like it had been polished with sandpaper and not one of the main journals was true to the crank centerline. I don't have a good way to measure stroke or index in my garage and I hate to think how bad that might have been off on that crank... Had to send it back out to get another .020" taken off it to true everything up (ended up .030" under and was turned .010" the first time). Strangely, didn't really have any issues with taper on that one.

Had another crank come back where they didn't even touch the thrust face and it had pitting from corrosion. I pointed that out to the guy at the shop and he said "that's not a problem, it'll be fine." So, I took it to the shop that's now out of business and they laughed and fixed it for me. That was a Toyota 22R crank and the first shop hadn't even bothered to remove the screw-in plugs from the oil passages in the rod journals. Second shop said it was full of junk.

I don't understand how shops that turn out crap work like that can stay in business.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Will

There was one shop around here, about 30 miles South in Tacoma that I could trust and they went out of business a couple years ago.

I haven't built any engines since then so I really don't know where to go now. I've had several cranks screwed up by other shops. Got one 428 crank that looked like it had been polished with sandpaper and not one of the main journals was true to the crank centerline. I don't have a good way to measure stroke or index in my garage and I hate to think how bad that might have been off on that crank... Had to send it back out to get another .020" taken off it to true everything up (ended up .030" under and was turned .010" the first time). Strangely, didn't really have any issues with taper on that one.

Had another crank come back where they didn't even touch the thrust face and it had pitting from corrosion. I pointed that out to the guy at the shop and he said "that's not a problem, it'll be fine." So, I took it to the shop that's now out of business and they laughed and fixed it for me. That was a Toyota 22R crank and the first shop hadn't even bothered to remove the screw-in plugs from the oil passages in the rod journals. Second shop said it was full of junk.

I don't understand how shops that turn out crap work like that can stay in business.

I've got ONE guy I trust to grind a crank. I've known him for nearly twenty years. If Fred ever gets out of the business, I don't know who I'll send cranks to for grinding. I could do it myself, but one doesn't purchase a $50,000+ crank grinder to grind a crank or two a year.

[tom s]

We are lucky to have a few good crank grinders here in so cal.2 of them learned their trade from Joe Reath.Tom

[b-man]

Originally Posted by tom s

Bart,are you going to the show this sat?I still have your dip stick and tube in my trunk!Tom

Been too busy doing OT at work on Saturdays lately, otherwise I'd like to go.

Will try to come by your place sometime next month if I can work it out. Bart

[tom s]

No problem,not going anywhere.Tom

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by tom s

Joe Sherman does not have a machine shop.Fulper uses a guy in or around the Riverside area.Dugan is the shop.Tom

That marriage ended a few years ago. I rate Dougans as the best shop in SoCal, so you have to look elsewhere for the problem. 'Nuff said...

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by tom s

Joe Sherman does not have a machine shop.Fulper uses a guy in or around the Riverside area.Dugan is the shop.Tom

That marriage ended a few years ago. I rate Dougans as the best shop in SoCal, so you have to look elsewhere for the problem. 'Nuff said...

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by tom s

We are lucky to have a few good crank grinders here in so cal.2 of them learned their trade from Joe Reath.Tom

Joe was a legend, Tom. My old friend, Bud, used to talk about Joe's skills in grinding Offy cranks. Like Bud said.."Always on stroke, always on spec"

[tom s]

Joe was a very dear friend,started doing biz with him when I was 17,his wife Deli is still with us and doing well.The brains behind the biz.Tom

[gtobully]

To catch up on the replies, all of which are greatly appreciated. The car has a 4 speed manual. When it went out at 940 miles, it didn't let loose it had a knock at the rear of the engine that was the thrust bearing. Oil pressure was good, gauges work fine. I have 3.23 gears and ran it in 3rd gear at about 3k rpm for a couple of miles on the freeway, but had taken it on the freeway already after this build. But, back to the thrust bearing and tranny. Maybe the shop that did the R and R of the motor didn't get it right, but could I have even gone 250 miles if it was amiss? I would have heard something. The builder is Joe's Engine Shop in Concord CA. Veteran builder, only takes motors, does not do R&R. Our 94 year old friend who owned a shop was Joe's mentor. He has done many many engines, including racing motors over the years. Very reputable. I'm pretty sure he did the motor himself the 2nd time (after the thrust bearing chatter). I know I need to break it in for 1k miles or so, but does that really mean not taking it over 2k for the first 1K miles? My buddy said no way I'd have to have been racing it plus had it overheat to have it come apart again. Just praying my block is ok, this car is original drive train Concours restored.

[johnta1]

The 'break-in' is usually for the rings seating in the bores.

Bearings don't need 'break-in'?

[JSPONT]

No you can go over 2000 rpm, that is non sense. Since you have a 4 speed that rules out the convertor pushing into the crank and killing the thrust bearing.
Now, when you have it balanced, the shop should have asked for your harmonic balancer, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. If you run a heavy flywheel and it is not balanced it will hurt bearings.
Was everything neutral balanced?