[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

He act's like he does. Nice of you to stick up for him. I don't know him. I watched him badger Slowbird and now he's started with me.

I'm badgering you huh? And I badgered slowbird? Poor guys. So its badgering when someone presents an opinion of their own, or information that isn't opinion, but doesn't match yours.

However, when you guys do it its called just asking questions and getting facts straight?

My whole point has been to stop the badgering. The real badgering. Its one thing to say, EHTTFMF, its another to insult people, or bash something they've done/made. I'm just saying that in general. Its not necessary to point fingers.

Thats the Yellow Bullet way, and I'm suggesting it doesn't need to be ours.

Yes, Slick is correct. I have a turbo car that made some good hp with a set of E-heads. Not in the 1400-1500 range, but had I turned up the boost it could have. And then I could have hauled it home in a few buckets. lol

[ho428]

Here's my take on the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

I'm badgering you huh? And I badgered slowbird? Poor guys. So its badgering when someone presents an opinion of their own, or information that isn't opinion, but doesn't match yours.

However, when you guys do it its called just asking questions and getting facts straight?

My whole point has been to stop the badgering. The real badgering. Its one thing to say, EHTTFMF, its another to insult people, or bash something they've done/made. I'm just saying that in general. Its not necessary to point fingers.

Thats the Yellow Bullet way, and I'm suggesting it doesn't need to be ours.

Yes, Slick is correct. I have a turbo car that made some good hp with a set of E-heads. Not in the 1400-1500 range, but had I turned up the boost it could have. And then I could have hauled it home in a few buckets. lol

You don't have to have pity for us with your badgering. I can take it and I'm sure Slowbird can. You shouldn't put words in other people's mouth. Example you stated I never gave TTB Bill any respect. I believe you are wrong. The truth of the matter is he mocked my work and then when called out he couldn't back it up. Maybe you should read posts a couple of times and comprehend them before making a comment. Let me know if it would help you if I typed real slow.

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

You don't have to have pity for us with your badgering. I can take it and I'm sure Slowbird can. You shouldn't put words in other people's mouth. Example you stated I never gave TTB Bill any respect. I believe you are wrong. The truth of the matter is he mocked my work and then when called out he couldn't back it up. Maybe you should read posts a couple of times and comprehend them before making a comment. Let me know if it would help you if I typed real slow.

Actually I think you need to reread perhaps. I won't type slow, but it is there for you to read several times if that's what it takes. I did not mention your name in the larger post above. The only specific reference I made to you in fact, was the one about John Marcella, since you're the one who stated he's never been wrong.

If you took what I said in there to be directed at you, its either a guilty conscience or you did not read it carefully.

I did mention you in the smaller post below it, and slowbird too, but just about the badgering thing. "I watched him badger Slowbird and now he's started with me." seems a little sensitive.

Again, and I'll repeat it. My point is not to badger anyone. Just stating it would be nice if the CV-1 bashing...ok, lets call it badgering...would stop. Let the head stand or fail on its own merits, but give it some more time.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

I'm badgering you huh? And I badgered slowbird? Poor guys. So its badgering when someone presents an opinion of their own, or information that isn't opinion, but doesn't match yours.

However, when you guys do it its called just asking questions and getting facts straight?

My whole point has been to stop the badgering. The real badgering. Its one thing to say, EHTTFMF, its another to insult people, or bash something they've done/made. I'm just saying that in general. Its not necessary to point fingers.

Thats the Yellow Bullet way, and I'm suggesting it doesn't need to be ours.

Yes, Slick is correct. I have a turbo car that made some good hp with a set of E-heads. Not in the 1400-1500 range, but had I turned up the boost it could have. And then I could have hauled it home in a few buckets. lol

What you have is a group that have been stroking each other as they all have posted the same lines of BS.

There has only been a few that questioned them so they have been very comfortable.

Lately the number of people questioning them has increased and they are getting very uncomfortable and defensive.

Stan

[GTO Dan]

TimeWarp - if I recall correctly, and I am getting old so my memory might be failing, there was a lot of hate for the Edelbrocks. Mostly by the purist that thought anything not made by PMD could not be good, by those who said it would be a hassle and expensive to switch to round port headers and a new intake and let's not forget all the guys that thought they had a unicorn because they had PMD round port heads. Wenzlers were maligned and attacked as were KRE D-ports and HPs. I am not saying it right then or now.

Performance and results quiets most, but never all, critics. Unless of course they are just busting balls.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Actually I think you need to reread perhaps. I won't type slow, but it is there for you to read several times if that's what it takes. I did not mention your name in the larger post above. The only specific reference I made to you in fact, was the one about John Marcella, since you're the one who stated he's never been wrong.

If you took what I said in there to be directed at you, its either a guilty conscience or you did not read it carefully.

I did mention you in the smaller post below it, and slowbird too, but just about the badgering thing. "I watched him badger Slowbird and now he's started with me." seems a little sensitive.

Again, and I'll repeat it. My point is not to badger anyone. Just stating it would be nice if the CV-1 bashing...ok, lets call it badgering...would stop. Let the head stand or fail on its own merits, but give it some more time.

badg·er
ˈbajər/
verb
1.
ask (someone) repeatedly and annoyingly for something; pester.
"journalists badgered him about the deals"
synonyms: pester, harass, bother, plague, torment, hound, nag, harry, tease, go on at; informalhassle, bug, get on someone's case
"stop badgering us"

[LiL Jack]

I'm

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

What was all that about making assumptions and talking about it all after its done? If people had done that here from the start things might in fact be different. Instead, some folks seemed to get a kick out of posting negative things about CV-1's almost from the start.

That's why I suggested a few posts back that all the folks who have bashed this head over the years should instead stand back and let it be. Then if the head fails they can say it was on its own and for its own lack of merits.

But you know...those who have contributed to the problem can't even be honest with themselves, let alone anyone else. And they post comments indicating they were only asking questions........only pointing out facts........

No, they didn't have anything to do with the negativity here. But they're lying. To themselves and everyone else who has seen it. And trust me, there are many who have watched here and thought exactly what I am saying but never posted.

An example. John Marcella. Knowledgeable guy, offers a lot. Has this head in fact been around for 7 years with no appreciable results? No. Two and a half years ago I contacted Jim Roland about maybe buying a set. Hadn't been a set available for a little while and he wasn't sure there would be any more. Fast forward to now. Yes, there are sets out there from the first run, but not all that many. Nothing like what Edelbrock sold initially.

It took Edelbrock a few years to gain traction in the new Pontiac head with their HUGE name behind it and basically ZERO other comparably priced competition.

Realistically subtract 3 years from the 7 that John is quoting. During that say...4 years...of actual production a small number of those CV-1's sold ended up on running engines in cars. Like anything else some others were part of longer term projects, etc.

And we all know Jim Roland does NOT have the Edelbrock name behind him. I've met Pontiac guys who are never on this forum...some have never heard of this forum. This is the main contact Jim had with the Pontiac world for the most part.

Unlike the E-head, the CV-1 head was scrutinized from the start right here. I saw it. The E-head was welcomed. You say the E-head had no problems? It came with crappy springs, flowed a measly 265 cfm and yes, it did have an oil drain back issue in some applications. I know someone who experienced it.

The bolt bosses in the heads were also not changed by Edelbrock because they were sitting at lunch one day and said, "Hey...lets change something on those Pontiac heads for the heck of it. Throw those Pontiac guys a curveball. Hehe."

The E-head evolved because a bunch of people bought them and threw a LOT of money at them. Spent a hell of a lot of time trying new things on the race track. They got welded on and played with every which way.

The CV-1 has not had that much time on the race track. Give it some time....I mean REALLY give it some time. Without the BS. Maybe it'll prove itself, maybe it won't.

As for me having something against E-heads? Oh heck no. I own a set I like.

P.S. - Bill was right on the mark explaining how I meant there were many heads that could make 3000 hp. Truth is Marty P. made 1600 hp or so with a set of iron heads what...20 yrs ago? Everything has improved since then, from turbos to blocks to.....

Where do you come up with CV1s have only been out for 4 years?

Ken Keefer was racing them back in 2008 and Brian Hedrick had them around 2009!

So over 7 years is about right.

[TimeWarp]

Stan, yes, I know...but actually I'd like to mend the fences, not continue dividing. The whole E-head vs CV-1 thing could stop, if everyone just backed off and let it alone. I would just like to see Jim Roland have a chance to get more heads out there, and then people can decide if its a good product. People can play with them and do the same things people did with E-heads.

I get it that racing is competitive. But we can be competitive without being total asses. At least...all the time. I've been an ass before. I'm no saint. But I'm really tired of what I call the "Yellow Bullet Way". The trash talk way. Thats why I guess I really like that saying, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."

What happened to respect for your fellow guy? Dont have to like everyone. But if you don't, why not just walk away? Seems like the internet has just allowed the worst in people to come out.

Guess that's why I have respect for guys like Fulton. No, he's not the only one. There are lots of others. But I for one would like to see things change back.

And I'm just asking people to consider the idea.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

You don't have to have pity for us with your badgering. I can take it and I'm sure Slowbird can. You shouldn't put words in other people's mouth. Example you stated I never gave TTB Bill any respect. I believe you are wrong. The truth of the matter is he mocked my work and then when called out he couldn't back it up. Maybe you should read posts a couple of times and comprehend them before making a comment. Let me know if it would help you if I typed real slow.

... Exactly what could I not back up Paul ?? ... and just be specific ok ...

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

I did not mention your name in the larger post above. The only specific reference I made to you in fact, was the one about John Marcella, since you're the one who stated he's never been wrong.



I did mention you in the smaller post below it,

Again, and I'll repeat it. My point is not to badger anyone. Just stating it would be nice if the CV-1 bashing...ok, lets call it badgering...would stop. Let the head stand or fail on its own merits, but give it some more time.

I'm confused you didn't mention me and then you dId mention me.

You have yet to explain when I disrespected TTB? But since you're so much into the truth maybe you can call him out for slamming me with insults that weren't true.

I have a challenge for you, go find a post on this website where I said something not true about the CV1 head.

That should keep you busy for a while.

While you're at it you can find the the guys that did lie about the CV1....and jump all over them.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Anderson Port Development

... Exactly what could I not back up Paul ?? ... and just be specific ok ...

TTB do your really want to continue this? Is it that important to you? It's not to me.

[TimeWarp]

Dan - You are correct to an extent. But I dont feel to this extent. And again, Edelbrock sold a LOT of heads, so they proliferated regardless.

Jack, they were out of production for at least 3 years. Meaning none being produced. Very few (compared to E-heads) out there. How many do you know racing right now?

Mike, thank you for the definition. But I was aware of it, and my whole point was that whether you use the word badger, harrass, or bash..........when folks have done it against the CV-1 head or people talking in favor of it......it was often just called "asking questions", or "stating facts".

But I'M badgering? lol

[TimeWarp]

Paul, show me again where I said YOU disrespected Bill?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I'm

Where do you come up with CV1s have only been out for 4 years?

Ken Keefer was racing them back in 2008 and Brian Hedrick had them around 2009!

So over 7 years is about right.

It sounds better if you distort the facts.... it's like the golfer who doesn't want to count his ridiculously bad strokes.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

What you have is a group that have been stroking each other as they all have posted the same lines of BS.

There has only been a few that questioned them so they have been very comfortable.

Lately the number of people questioning them has increased and they are getting very uncomfortable and defensive.

Stan

I'm not uncomfortable at all. The only thing I'm questioning is the untruths. You might not be comfortable, I've asked you atleast twice about your Pontiac cars and their accomplishments and yet to get an answer.

[mike leech]

Someone forgot their meds

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Paul, show me again where I said YOU disrespected Bill?

Go back and read your posts.....they babble on to long and are to boring for me to read again. You mentioned something about me not giving TTB any respect.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm confused you didn't mention me and then you dId mention me.

You have yet to explain when I disrespected TTB? But since you're so much into the truth maybe you can call him out for slamming me with insults that weren't true.

I have a challenge for you, go find a post on this website where I said something not true about the CV1 head.

That should keep you busy for a while.

While you're at it you can find the the guys that did lie about the CV1....and jump all over them.

Oh my gosh another Gach! LOL!



GTO George

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Dan - You are correct to an extent. But I dont feel to this extent. And again, Edelbrock sold a LOT of heads, so they proliferated regardless.

Jack, they were out of production for at least 3 years. Meaning none being produced. Very few (compared to E-heads) out there. How many do you know racing right now?

Mike, thank you for the definition. But I was aware of it, and my whole point was that whether you use the word badger, harrass, or bash..........when folks have done it against the CV-1 head or people talking in favor of it......it was often just called "asking questions", or "stating facts".

But I'M badgering? lol

Edelbrocks did indeed sell a lot of heads in the early years before they were proven because they advertised to some degree, had them in their catalogue and listed in performance catalogs (i.e. Summit), etc. They didn't need to rely on Internet forums (mostly because they didn't exist) to get the word out. But remember KRE has sold pallets of heads and they didn't have a big marketing and distribution engine either.