[MNBob]

I appreciate the info from ponyakr and all of the posters on this site. These people contribute their time and expertise to help others.

I have learned a lot by reading all these threads; not to their level, but enough to know a lot more than I did 5 years ago (the start of my car redo)!

[cold coffee]

I appreciate all the help given.

As for compression, is 9.2-9.3 enough to make the 60919 work well or should I go for more compression, maybe by milling the heads?

With cam, pistons and lifters thats about $600ish. Got to pay out another 500 for the heads once they are done. I'd like to do the rest of it as cheap as I can.

Also since I have registered here the posts are backwards. The most recent is at the top. Anyone know how to fix that?

Originally Posted by Cliff R

YIKES! How long does it take to research, copy, and paste all that stuff?

Anyhow, 6X-8 heads are going to be close to 101cc, so figure about 9.2-9.3 to 1 compression with flat top pistons. You'd need to cut them pretty hard to get to 10 to 1. Cam choice would NOT be the same for each scenario, so you'd need to nail down that deal first.

As demonstrating by the links, LOTS of options for everything else. It's going to depend on what your goal are and how much money you want to spend to get there.........Cliff

[mgarblik]

You have lots of quality advice and information in this thread to consider. You don't say where you are located, but if you would, people on here can recommend some good shops. A quality machine shop can make or break the whole deal for you. It is very important to have quality machine work and pay a little more if necessary to get it. Some on the forum disagree with me about a Pontiac specialty shop being needed to build a good Pontiac engine. The Pontiac V-8 is a VERY simple engine to build. A good machine shop that builds a variety of quality engines can certainly do one and do it properly. A "parts store" machine shop that is primarily patching together engines for junk old passenger cars to keep them on the road should not touch your Pontiac. If they are primarily working on late model junk, or old small block Chevies, there could easily not be a single person in that shop that has EVER seen a Pontiac V-8. Then you are in real trouble, because although they are simple, there are some little differences that can really screw the engine up. Like cylinder placement, valve angles, cleaning the valley pan properly and so forth. It is important to remember that the Pontiac V-8 has been out of production for 36 years. So someone in the shop needs to be in their mid 50's to have much experience with them . Best of luck with your rebuild.

[Stuckinda60s]

For how you display posts, go into your User CP at the top left of this page. Then, in "Your Control Panel" go to "Settings and Options" and click on options. Go to "Thread Display Options" and click on "Thread Display Mode".

[ponyakr]

"...As for compression, is 9.2-9.3 enough to make the 60919 work well or should I go for more compression, maybe by milling the heads?..."


The 041 clone cams will work with that compression. Pontiac planned to use that grind in the low compression SD455 engines. They did a lot of testing with these engines. They rated the hp at 310. But, because of tightening fed emission regulations, they decided to back off on the cam & go with the 744 spec grind. This reduced the power quite a bit. They only reduced the rating by 20hp, down to a 290hp rating. So, even with CR under 9:1, the 041 grind cam will still make power.

Is it better than say a Voodoo 268 or 276 ? That depends on who you ask. My guess is that a Voodoo will make more power, for most anything under 9:1. I reckin Paul Carter might be the guy to ask, since he has built & tested lots of engines with a Voodoo cam.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

For how you display posts, go into your User CP at the top left of this page. Then, in "Your Control Panel" go to "Settings and Options" and click on options. Go to "Thread Display Options" and click on "Thread Display Mode".

Hey, thanks for that info. I had no idea you could change it. Thought that was just the way this forum worked.

I like to see the 1st post of the thread at the top of page 1 of the thread.

Just changed mine. Thanks again !

[cold coffee]

Thanks for the help guys. Parts will be here by the 25th. Cam pistons and lifters.

Anyone have a preference for rings or are they all the same?

[steve25]

The of the most critical think about rings is you need to use a over bore size and rings that work as a near drop in set up!
You want rings that are basically a drop in as far as having the right too ring gap is concerned!
If you have to file a file fit type ring any more than .005" then it will only be touching the cylinder walls 4 in locations and the motor will never perform as expected.

All to many folks never light check the new rings in the bore either right out of the box, or after filing them and it's such a easy thing to do!

[ponyakr]

I always just used the TRW moly rings, that were listed for the TRW L2359F pistons. They did OK, running down into the 11.80's, with unported iron heads.

Never used any file-fit rings. Could I have gotten a little more power by using a better ring set-up. Yes. I think the class racers have proven that there is quite a bit of power increase possible, with exactly the correct ring set-up.

One little trick I read about, is buying no-file rings, in a .005 bigger bore size. The reasoning is that if they are slightly too big, less filing will be needed, to get the gaps right, than when using file-fit rings. As mentioned, the more you file off, the less of a perfect circle the ring will make. So, with this in mind, I suppose it is possible to actually get a better seal with non-filed rings, even if the gap is bigger.

I suppose this can be checked some way--maybe with some sort of leak down, or compression test ???

It is said that the the ACTUAL gap of a ring can vary some, between different brands. And, the actual FINAL honed cylinder bore size can vary, because of piston type, and clearance chosen. So, because of all the variables, I suppose the only way to know the ACTUAL gap, is to position the ring in the finished bore & measure the gap.

If you use the Speed Pro forged pistons, that might make finding a complete set of .005 over rings hard to find, since the top ring is 5/64, & the 2nd ring is 1/16. Might require more than one set of rings, which could get expensive. But, for all I know, some of the ring makers might sell custom ring sets with exactly what you want, for each groove.

4.185 is a popular bore size. There are plenty of no-file rings in that size. But, most seem to have either 5/64 or 1/16 1st & 2nd rings. Haven't yet found a shelf set, in that size, with 5/64 top & 1/16 2nd. But, that don't mean such a set is not available. I have no experience trying to buy special rings. You may be able to buy rings for each groove separately.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...rder=Ascending

[steve25]

If your expecting any motor to reach peak HP above 5800 rpm without big time wall friction you had better be running Pistons that call for 1/16" rings.

In a motor with a 4.210" stroke or greater and you want peak HP to go beyond 5400 then you need the 1/16" rings also!

This is for street / strip motors, and my pick for ring brand would be Total seal.

[ponyakr]

Just happen to think of this. Scott Burton uses ring spacers, so that he can use thinner rings, in the 5/64 grooves.

"...Filling the cylinder bores are CP P1-CP NHRA-spec pistons with the stock 551-gram weight, valve reliefs, ring location, and ring grooves. Burton utilizes Total Seal’s 1.2mm C-33 chrome-nitrate face coating top ring with a gas-ported ring spacer, a cast-iron Napier second ring, and a low-drag oil ring..."

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/total...-wide-grooves/

So, it is possible to run thin rings with the SP L2359NF pistons. But, with the cost of the rings & spacers, it might be better to just upgrade to Auto Tec or Icon pistons, which use the thin rings. The 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 ring sets are available in LOTS of types & sizes.

The Icons show to be for a 4.180 bore size.

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/icon-...ntiac-455.html

Here are some 4.181 no-file thin rings.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...5-30/overview/

Here are some 4.185 no file thin rings.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...rder=Ascending

[steve25]

Yup, and piston wise you would save some much needed weight and have a motor that makes rpm faster!

[cold coffee]

Update. Went with the forged pistons, 60919 cam and fancy rhoads lifters.

Still need to get rings, bearings gaskets and probably a few other things.

This is my first engine build so we are quite excited. Can anyone point me to a good build thread, video or book on how to put it all together?

[ponyakr]

"...Can anyone point me to a good build thread, video or book on how to put it all together? "

There are lots of build threads on this forum. But, many are made by experienced Pontiac machinists/engine builders, and require precision machine work which is not doable by a beginner. Must have all the correct equipment & know-how. Might be discouraging to a 1st time builder. But, might be good info anyhow.

Rocky Rotella has a couple of books that has lots of Pontiac engine info. I'll try to find a good source for them, to link.

Amazon sells both books. Don't know if they have the best price or not.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-P.../dp/1613250355

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Max-Per...VKXJGJZP2HQQ2X

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/reb...v8-engine.html

Summit has 'em for $17.50, if you can get a free ride for 'em, with a $100 order.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sad-sa200/overview/

And, of course, Ebay has 'em.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...8%27s&_sacat=0

I think I've seen some used one's for sale, on this forum. Might not hurt to ask. May save you a few bucks.

I built my first few engines using a '69 Pontiac service manual, & all the literature from H-O racing Specialties.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Pontiac...38.m2548.l4275

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/196...DIPRoCuGjw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/PONTIAC-UNABR.../dp/B00H8VYUFK

There are lots of online engine build videos. But, I don't know if any are good. I haven't watched a whole one to check 'em out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVksdkGNHwU

http://boxwrench.net/specs/pont_265-455.htm

[ponyakr]

They're not cheap, by any means. However, Butler sells a finished block, along with all the parts, for you to assemble it yourself. Or, you can send them your block.

http://butlerperformance.com/i-24452...tegory:1234783

Proper machine work is critical. If it's done wrong, the results could be bad, even tho you may bolt everything together correctly.

Tell us where you live, and maybe somebody can recommend a good machine shop in your area.

[cold coffee]

I'm about 45 minutes north of cincinnati.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by cold coffee

I'm about 45 minutes north of cincinnati.

DCI is in Atwater, OH.

http://www.dcimotorsports.com/servic...ngine-builder/

Looks like you are just over 150 miles from Paul Sandoval, in Kocomo, IN.

http://www.sandovalperformance.com/engines

About 350 from Paul Knippen, in Sandwich, IL.

https://www.facebook.com/PaulKnippensMuscleMotors/

About 400 from Butler, in Lawrenceburg, TN.

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/contact.html

Also about 400 from Wayne Shicantek, in East Troy, WI.

https://www.bizapedia.com/wi/schican...mance-llc.html

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...0&postcount=11

Others here may know of some closer to you. If there are none, & you don't wanna haul your stuff that far, it is said that Fastenal shipping for engines, from store to store, is very reasonable. Or, some of these Pontiac shops may have a good deal on shipping rates for their stuff.