[skullbucket]

People make the mistake of paying "keep if forever price" for a car they think they are going to keep forever not knowing one little family tragedy or their dream car suddenly comes up for sale is heading their way. I buy all my cars like im going to sell it, I set a money limit on how much I got to sell it for and spend right up to it and thats it, I get close and it goes up for sale. My current GP has a wore out 10 footer black paint job on it that I love because its maintenance free and really has freed up a lot of money for other upgrades so I'll probably keep it awhile unless.............. someone else wants it more than I do and makes a cash offer because for me everything is for sale.

[61-63]

Typically the guy whose restores the car loses his butt and everyone after that can make money on it if it is something that can appreciate like a real GTO or a 50s Vette or a '62 bubbletop 409. On an A body Tempest or LeMans you are probably never going to get all of it back not matter how well done it is. But who cares? Like a friend of mine says "this is a hobby and hobbies cost money!". At least you can get "something" back, unlike folks who are into the hunting, fishing, golf, tennis, or many other hobbies - try getting some of the money spent on those back.

[tempest1964]

Stick to your guns. Have fun. Mean people will be mean. Haters will hate.
Tony

[bdk1976]

I don't get the point of threads like these? Is it to make yourself feel better about throwing money away? Commiserate with others in the same situation? Attempt to justify 'saving' a Tempest?

I like '64 Tempests, but now, as then, the GTO is king and always will be. Over the years I've seen many people try and justify 'saving' a Tempest/Lemans, 'uncloning' GTOs, etc., talking about how they are the only Tempest at a show, etc.

If you're going to pump a ton of $$ into a car, it makes no sense to start with a low end model, even if the initial cost is higher. In fact, with the possible exception of convertibles, I wouldn't even look at a Pontiac a-body that isn't a GTO to start with. I'd probably go even further and avoid certain color/option combinations as well.

It makes even less sense to do such a resto if you aren't doing 90% of the work yourself.

I can understand 'family cars' that have been passed down since original being restored in some cases, but don't try and kid yourself that it isn't a huge money pit.

If for some reason I wanted to get a nice Tempest, I'd find one that is already done and that someone else lost their shirt on.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

[64speed]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

I don't get the point of threads like these? Is it to make yourself feel better about throwing money away? Commiserate with others in the same situation? Attempt to justify 'saving' a Tempest?

I like '64 Tempests, but now, as then, the GTO is king and always will be. Over the years I've seen many people try and justify 'saving' a Tempest/Lemans, 'uncloning' GTOs, etc., talking about how they are the only Tempest at a show, etc.

If you're going to pump a ton of $$ into a car, it makes no sense to start with a low end model, even if the initial cost is higher. In fact, with the possible exception of convertibles, I wouldn't even look at a Pontiac a-body that isn't a GTO to start with. I'd probably go even further and avoid certain color/option combinations as well.

It makes even less sense to do such a resto if you aren't doing 90% of the work yourself.

I can understand 'family cars' that have been passed down since original being restored in some cases, but don't try and kid yourself that it isn't a huge money pit.

If for some reason I wanted to get a nice Tempest, I'd find one that is already done and that someone else lost their shirt on.

See its comments exactly like this that I am talking about. "I wouldnt own anything but a GTO" mentality is what has gotten a lot of these cars crushed over the years. Its worse in the Pontiac community it seems than in the Chevrolet etc, I see a lot of Chevelle 300 and regular Chevy II's around here that Arent SS.

[skullbucket]

I'd rather have a Tempest and use the saved money to build it the way I wanted. Im not paying over inflated prices for and engine code that says its 20 horsepower more than a regular model.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by skullbucket

I'd rather have a Tempest and use the saved money to build it the way I wanted. Im not paying over inflated prices for and engine code that says its 20 horsepower more than a regular model.

I agree I don’t think a burnout is any less fun in a Tempest than a GTO. Remember the station wagon craze a few years back. There was a 64 Tempest 2 door conversion station wagon on the cover of last months Hot Rod. Talk about a lot of money

[Formulajones]

It's obvious over the last 20 years as the prices for real muscle car stuff has kept rising to crazy levels, it's definitely made the lesser cars more popular and more appealing. Nothing wrong with that at all. I like seeing nice old cars whether they are GTO's, SS's, or a Lemans or Malibu.
However I've noticed, like everything else, as demand goes up, so do the prices. Cars like a Tempest or a Malibu used to be dirt cheap when there were plenty of inexpensive GTO's to buy. Not so much the case anymore.

[roy381]

"I agree I don’t think a burnout is any less fun in a Tempest than a GTO"


"My point exactly!

[West Coast GTO]

I have NEVER made money on any of the muscle cars I have had.
Never!
I do pick a car that I like because, in the process of making it mine( either restore to factory original or modify to my taste) , I am going to spend alot of money. In the process, I'm going to cuss at the busted knuckles or the rusted/ frozen bolt or the less than cooperating idler arm but will not second guess the money spent on working on my car.
I am happy to be able to do most of the work my self and that is some good therapy.
Enjoy your 64!

Originally Posted by 64speed

See its comments exactly like this that I am talking about. "I wouldnt own anything but a GTO" mentality is what has gotten a lot of these cars crushed over the years. Its worse in the Pontiac community it seems than in the Chevrolet etc, I see a lot of Chevelle 300 and regular Chevy II's around here that Arent SS.

[tom s]

I broke my own rule on this last car.NEVER buy a car that needs body work.Scratch and shoot maybe but NO serious body work.Tom

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by tom s

I broke my own rule on this last car.NEVER buy a car that needs body work.Scratch and shoot maybe but NO serious body work.Tom

Yeah I would say I learned my lesson on this as well. I would even be okay with replacing floor or trunk pans. But full on paint and body sucks.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by 64speed

See its comments exactly like this that I am talking about. "I wouldnt own anything but a GTO" mentality is what has gotten a lot of these cars crushed over the years. Its worse in the Pontiac community it seems than in the Chevrolet etc, I see a lot of Chevelle 300 and regular Chevy II's around here that Arent SS.

I currently own three LeMans (one is cloned with no regrets) and two GTOs so I'm not sure how I have "that mentality". I appreciate nice Tempests and LeMans but I'm not going to try and fool myself into thinking that restoring one would be a worthwhile endeavor from a financial perspective.

IIRC you were asking about investments. I stand by the fact that pouring $ into a tempest and thinking you'll get anywhere close to as much money back as dumping the same $/work into a GTO is a fools errand.

In most cases you'll lose your shirt restoring a GTO, and it won't get any better with a lower end model.

[Chris65LeMans]

I think it's pointless to consider a car an "investment." This implies that you've thought "should I buy stocks, real estate, or a car?" and picked the car.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by tom s

I broke my own rule on this last car.NEVER buy a car that needs body work.Scratch and shoot maybe but NO serious body work.Tom

Yeah, I totally agree with this. Body & paint is labor intensive, and is expensive. Not to mention getting good body/paint work done is a massive challenge. Most collision shops will do more damage than good, and a resto shop charges 10x or more. Not to mention how long it will take.

You certainly can buy cars done for way less than building them, at least when it comes to body & paint. How many times have you heard someone say they are buying a car for a donor engine, trans, or differential? That's because after all that time, money, and effort the previous owner put into it still wouldn't justify spending the money to get the body and paint done.

I was watching Mecum a few weeks ago, Harrisburg I think it was, and saw some very nice stuff go across the block in the mid-20s to mid-30s range. My jaw was dropping and out loud said 'Can't even build one for that'. Shoot, for twice that even.

You definitely save big doing as much as you can yourself. And seeing some of the work shops around here folks say are 'good' makes me feel I can do it better, without ever doing any body work in my life. It's sad, and frustrating.

Sadly, to get a car to the 'next level', 9 times out of 10, requires body and paint. Just about every hobbyist can bolt stuff on, or swap an engine, but where do most cars you see in the local burger joint cruise lack? Yeah, body & paint. But once that's done, usually, it will last a long time, and at most just require a scuff & shoot in the current owner's life time.

.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by tom s

I broke my own rule on this last car.NEVER buy a car that needs body work.Scratch and shoot maybe but NO serious body work.Tom

Yeah I broke my own rule this time too but the entry price was free. I bought the car for 2500 and sold the Tri Power for 2600. I didnt mean investment like stocks I just meant time and energy and of course money. I know they are a terrible "investment" I just dont like being told I am stupid because its not a GTO

[HWYSTR455]

Someone at one time said the world was round, and all ridiculed him, because of course it is flat.

Picasso's painting look perfectly fine to him.

People used to laugh at V8 Vegas, and other engine swaps.

Actually, in your case, you can do what you want with the car, and get LESS opposition, because it's NOT a GTO.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Remember this?

http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/08/gray-ghost-rides/

https://bangshift.com/bangshiftapex/...he-gray-ghost/

Not so stupid now, eh?

.

[455GRIN]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm messing with a 1980 Firebird Esprit that I got free. Originally had a V-6, and a straight body. Ended up painting myself and dumped my old 455 in it. Building for me to have fun with and learn some body and paint skills. But it ain't free no more. Just don't over build it, get back on the road and enjoy it.

Most of the non-car people will think its cool to see such an old car cruising around, they don't care of its a GTO.