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#21
11-03-2017, 06:30 PM
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Good to know all this.
They said they maged it today and found a couple minor cracks in the valley which are common on 389's I guess. they're not sure if they're going to weld them or " stitch " them whatever that means. in any case there is nothing serious wrong with the block. I hoped to get the sonic results today but it looks like it will be Monday now. |
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#22
11-03-2017, 06:34 PM
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A little late here, just caught this thread, ive had 2 sleeve's in my 455 since 2007, no issues, so far.
Rich |
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#23
11-03-2017, 08:17 PM
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I've never heard of sleeves causing heads to crack. I call BS on that one, unless someone left the sleeve sticking up, but I think that would just cause a head gasket issue, not a cracked head.
If fixing cracks in the lifter valley, I would not weld it as that will surely cause it to crack next to the welds later on. Instead, I would fix it with Lock-N-Stitch repair pins. They are not tapered like most crack repair pins, so they won't spread the crack apart. Instead, the thread shape of them actually pulls both halves together, and they make a great repair. I fixed 18 cracks in a pair of 6.0L Ford diesel heads about 5 years ago with them, and they are still going fine in a daily driver.
__________________
Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#24
11-03-2017, 08:31 PM
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That is what they were talking about then he said they had threads, one is on the water jacket at the rear of the valley . there are none around the cam bearings where I would have expected them.
He said they can pre-heat the block in an oven and weld it if they had to but that would be a last resort. |
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#25
11-04-2017, 03:37 PM
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I've seen 2 Pontiac blocks welded in the lifter valley. Both were cracked along the outside of the welds. 1 was a 64 389. Can't remember what the other was exactly.
__________________
Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#26
11-04-2017, 10:36 PM
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Another one was Pete McCarthy's. He told me the block had cracked also.
__________________
There is no such thing as too much cam, just not enough engine. 1966 GTO - 11.31@119 (3478 lbs) in 1979 1967 Firebird - 9.73@138 (2940 lbs) in 1986 400 cu in / 295-298 cfm RAIV / Lunati Cam 278/283 - .704 lift/5.13 gears |
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#27
11-05-2017, 12:07 AM
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Kind of makes sense. it cracked in the first case because it was weak. the edges of a weld are even weaker.
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#28
11-07-2017, 12:09 AM
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It'll be fine, my 455 ran strong with _all eight_ cylinders sleeved. (I wasn't consulted during the rebuild...)
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#29
11-07-2017, 01:13 AM
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I was concerned about running a sleeve in my stock block. I talked with a Bonneville racer who said not to worry about it. Many engines are sleeved for Bonneville cars to get the internal dimensions necessary for a specific class.
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#30
11-07-2017, 07:47 PM
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Sonic results are in and they don't really want to bore it any further. he said I could get by with 2 sleeves but he recommended doing all 8 and making it good as new again. for the $600 it's a no brainer in my opinion so I told him to go for it.
So my original block is salvageable I'm pretty pumped on that. now we just have to find standard bore pistons that will bring the compression down to 10-1 or a little less. it looks like it's either going to take custom pistons or cutting some stock ones to get there. |
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#31
11-07-2017, 07:53 PM
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Also late here. Will say I have installed sleeves in these blocks many times, after sonic check of course. Never had anyone come back with complaints. Main part is leaving a good step for the sleeve end to seat against.
[edit] Just saw your last post. Not sure I understand why they want to do all eight. Once installed eight sleeves in a 426 hemi block that froze up solid. Guy was bent on saving it because he spent a lot on having the sides stitched back together too. Had to be line bored & decked afterwards. So make sure they check all that. |
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#32
11-07-2017, 08:04 PM
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Our thoughts were since we're on the edge according to the sonic results rather than mess with 2 piston sizes and marginal cylinder walls just sleeve all 8 and be done with it.
Since this will preserve my numbers matching drive train a few hundred bucks is a bargain to me. |
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#33
11-07-2017, 10:38 PM
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Well, since $600.00 didn't scare you on the sleeve job, just have some custom pistons made exactly the way you want...
__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... 
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#34
11-08-2017, 11:56 AM
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If sleeving all 8, it will need to be align honed. That kind of brutality will move that block all around.
__________________
Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#35
11-08-2017, 12:14 PM
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Yes, they said they'd use a plate and they always align hone .
They also said they'd stitch the crack in the valley rather than weld it. One thing I don't quite understand is how the head holds the sleeve down. there is a step in the bottom that holds it there I get that. but he said after he decked the block it would be hard to see it was sleeved, so if the head bolted down metal to metal fine , but there is a head gasket so it's a soft gap you might say. I know it works , I just don't quite get it. |
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#36
11-08-2017, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
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#37
11-08-2017, 07:07 PM
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It's not hard to understand if a gasket is considered adequate to hold the sleeve down.
If it needs a shelf on the bottom to hold it logic dictates it needs a lock on the top to hold it. not a fiber gasket. Obviously it works, but it's not obvious why. |
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#38
11-08-2017, 10:21 PM
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8 sleeves plus stitching cracks??? I'd paint that block nice 'n' purty, put it under a glass table-top, and buy another block to actually use.
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#39
11-08-2017, 10:23 PM
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The step at the bottom is much more of an installation aid than it is to keep the sleeve from moving. As hurryinhoosier said, the sleeve has a press fit of about .001-.0015". Whether the sleeves are frozen and "dropped" into place, or driven in manually at room temp (our shops method), A step to stop against comes in very handy.
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#40
11-08-2017, 11:06 PM
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Agreed. Press fit is holding power. Preferred methods will vary. Mine is 0.015" per inch of bore. Which would be 0.006" press for a 389/400. Sleeve spends a few hours in the freezer, and installed when the block is still warm from over-bore operation. Brake fluid is used as anti-gall lubricant. Then add notch accordingly.
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