[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by dataway

I assume you have heard the speech about how to tighten the suspension components up AFTER the car has weight on the wheels?

I figured that was a given but I can see how that detail can be overlooked I guess. It can be a real pain to get a torque wrench in there on the upper control arms when everything is assembled. But Dataway is correct, ALWAYS leave the suspension loose until the car is completed, then torque to spec. I usually leave myself a check list on the windshield as the car moves along, and it's one of the last things on the list.

[68ragtop]

These springs actually came from coil spring specialists & I bought them there for the same reason Formulajones mentioned. Problem is, it was about 13 years ago. I called them at the time & they were absolutely positive I had the right springs, but yet the car would sit like a truck no matter how much weight I threw on it. all the bushings are polyurethane, energy suspension I believe, so I don;t think they create a load like the original rubber ones would. I wonder if I could measure the pressure the stock springs have at installed height vs these other springs. Maybe compress them on a hydraulic press that has a pressure gauge. That might work. I am very tempted to just take one coil, or half a coil out of them & try them again. I already have them & they are worthless as is.
Originals could easily be blasted & painted but they have rust pits in the lower coils where they can be seen. Really don't want that. I have been filling pits on every part for this car. Very tedious & tiring process.

All the shocks are gas charged, so that doesn't help, but shouldn't change the height much.

Hmmmm.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I figured that was a given but I can see how that detail can be overlooked I guess. It can be a real pain to get a torque wrench in there on the upper control arms when everything is assembled. But Dataway is correct, ALWAYS leave the suspension loose until the car is completed, then torque to spec. I usually leave myself a check list on the windshield as the car moves along, and it's one of the last things on the list.

these move very smooth tightened. they are the poly units that pivot on the metal sleeves. Very good thought though.

[dataway]

I would think that theoretically you could test the springs in a press with a gauge ... at least you could compare them to stock springs.

Yeah, if they are usable as is .... could trying cutting them down and see how it rides. If it rides ok ... then you are good to go, but I'm guessing the ride might be too harsh. Since the new ones are shorter than the old ones, that means, if it sits higher, the spring rate of the news ones must be stiffer than the old ones, and taking out a coil will make them stiffer yet. But then the OEM springs back in the day were pretty soft to begin with.

[Formulajones]

Have you measured your height compared to the assembly manual. All these cars have a spec or range to be in measured at a certain spot on the car (usually off the rockers in front of rear tires and behind front tires) with the correct height tires on the car.

Gives everyone a ballpark where you're at to start with.

Other alternative is to do what I mentioned, and send one original spring to them and they will duplicate a set for you. I've never had any issue with them and easy to deal with, very knowledgeable. They'll even customize a set based off information you provide.

They have been considered the go to place for springs for quite a few years now. Maybe something has changed since the 13 years has passed when you bought yours. Back then I was still buying generic springs from vendors and tired of swapping them every 6 months trying to find what worked. These days, with all the combined part numbers from various vendors, I'm pretty much of the thought process now that if they don't get their springs from Coil Spring Specialties, I'm not buying them. Easier and more confident going right to the source and just calling Coil Spring Specialties.

[dataway]

Maybe the springs are pissed at you for waiting 13 years ..... that's all I got left

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by dataway

Maybe the springs are pissed at you for waiting 13 years ..... that's all I got left

Lol, this car I refer to as my nemeses to friends and family. It's pretty much two restorations in one nightmare. I bought it in 2001-ish & In three years time I got an awful lot done. The car had the drive train finished, sheet metal work was done & its was back to being a roller for the most part. just needed to be painted. We built a home in 2004-2005 & started a new family with kids. When I started working on it again a few years later, I started to raise the bar of what I wanted the car to be. I Basically started over, But at least the chassis was still together & rolling.
Two weeks ago as I was nearing putting the body back on the frame, I realized what I did on the frame 15 years ago wasn't what I wanted either & I tore that completely back down & that's what I am working on now. Not that it was done wrong, I just want it nicer than what I did originally. Filling all left behind rust pits, etc. It will get done & hopefully I will be putting it all together in the next few months. Heck, I have been at this thing so long that my pictures have evolved from 35mm film, to sony mavica floppy disk digital to todays megapixel images. seems nuts when I really think about it.

Heck, that mavica camera I had is probably a collectible by now

['ol Pinion head]

Totally agree with Formulajones posts on this subject. Have been using Coil Spring Specialties exclusively for correct replacement coil springs. If only prospective buyers could look at all the different coil spring combinations, for each year, from factory design sheets, they would quit buying coil springs from mass resellers or from Moog with what now amounts to one fits many applications. 30 years ago, much better selection & fit from Moog.

[68ragtop]

I am guessing your not directing the comment to me, but more to the thread in general to make it useful for the future, But that is where the springs I have came from. Paid a little more & had even had them powder coated. I think I'll think I will call them Monday just to see if they have any ideas even though I would never expect them to do anything about it this late in the game. I'll look again & find my original thread from years back.

[Formulajones]

Here's something to add to the thread.

I'd like to add that dads GTO rides like a Cadillac as well. Something Pontiac had a real handle on back then is ride quality, and Coil Spring Specialties duplicates that, something no other spring manufacture does as far as I've tried.

Now here's a shot of our cars parked together. You can see they sit almost exactly the same. However mine is much heavier up front (BBC, AC, all steel etc...) But there are very distinct difference in ride quality between the two. Chevrolet wasn't really into ride quality as much as Pontiac and Buick/Olds were. The SS has more of a handling type suspension under it. As a result, even though these cars sit identical, there are two very distinctly different ride qualities between them, which is completely correct. That's what Coil Spring Specialties brings to the table.

[dataway]

Hoping I'll be ok with the springs I bought ... rears were bought about 30 years ago, fronts came from Ames about 20 years ago.

[68ragtop]

So I decided I am going to put the original front springs back in. Sand blast & powder coat them. I found a picture of how the car sat years ago, & its not bad, but I would like to drop it about 1" from what I see in the picts. Any harm in taking 1/2 -3/4 of a coil out of them? I am ok with the stock height, but don't want to over do it.

I also understand this will make the suspension a smidge stiffer & I am ok with that.

Any body know how much to shorten them? I remember hearing years ago, remove half as much height of the springs as you want it to drop. Guessing thats just a rule of thumb....

[68ragtop]

So, after some thought I decided to have the original front springs powder coated. they are not pitted at all & looking at pictures of the car before the restoration began it sat decent

But, I have two questions. First, I would like to drop it about 1" lower. The common thinking would be to shorten the springs 1/2" in un-installed height. The first 1/2 of the coils are pretty flat as they are shaped to fit into the pockets of the control arms.

If I cut that 1/2 coil off, yet they will be about 1/2" shorter, but will no longer have that last winding taper they have now. Will that screw up how straight they will sit in the pockets? I would imagine it has some impact or the springs wouldn't have that taper in the winding?

seems to me that will cause the springs to arc outwards on each side.

secondly, one of the springs is about 1/8+" shorter than the other. would you focus on getting them to the exact same height after the cut, or cut the exact same amount of the coil off? did the originals have a L&R specific side & maybe the longer one went on the left side? or is it just a coincidence?

Thanks! 68RT

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

This post could probably go into the suspension tech forum as well, but I wanted to see if anyone can share specific info they might have learned vehicle specific, rather than just a suspension question.

A little background first:

I put my 68 chassis together many years ago, & at the time I ordered new coil springs front/rear I believe from a company called "coil spring specialists"? (I need to see if I can find the receipt) Anyway, they asked very specific questions to get me the right springs. Well, upon first installing them they seemed crazy stiff, in fact the upper control arms stayed on the bump stops. A couple years later I had the car all together for a mock up as I was fitting body panels, etc. The car still sat like a 4X4 front & back. It looked like it had no engine installed.
I then called the spring manufacturer & they assured me I had the correct springs & they just needed to settle down. I get that, they do settle over time. But, it never did. At one point I threw several hundred lbs of sand blasting material on the floors to simulate the interior as that's all that was missing from a weight perspective. no change. Then I put rachet straps on the suspension while it sat on a 4-post lift & pulled it down lower than where it should sit. Left it like that for several weeks. Released the straps & it bounced back up to truck level. So something was for sure wrong with these springs.

So back to my question.

I have the suspension all apart again & I was going to cut a few loops out of the springs to get the car to drop. But I am unsure if I should do that, or just buy more springs & hope to find something that works. I would rather have the car sit a smudge low than too high. Just a personal preference.

Anyway to figure out what the heck these springs are by thickness, height, etc?
I am lost.......

I went ahead and cut one coil off each frt. coil, it is fine by me. right height and the ride is not over bearing like a 4x4 works for me.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

these move very smooth tightened. they are the poly units that pivot on the metal sleeves. Very good thought though.

That's what I've a;ways thought, that the poly bushings pivoted on the metal sleeves and could be tightened after putting them them on the car.

Couple of years ago, I purchased rear lower control arms from Spohn

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1968-1972-...-Bushings.html

and they advised me to leave the attaching bolts loose until the car was at ride height and then torque the fasteners. I found this unusual since the arms have metal sleeves and grease fittings!?!

I mention this as nothing can be assumed, I reckon.