[NBF823]

I have no idea whats going to happen, bit I think its ATTACK OF THE CLONES!

Fed up with lack of style, huge curb weights, mandatory options, decreased numbers of the older models, and more nanny state electronics - the clones are comming! Were gonna make up some jigs, order some stampings, and supply the world with freah classic sleds to work with! Want a 68 'maro - Ed at the end of the block made the jigs. Want a 72 Challenger - go talk to bob across town and get ur steel ordered so he can start welding it up!

Clones, clones, clones, everywhere clones! Hahahaha!

Wait, I think the battery in my crystal ball is going. Wonder if Lutz has a good battery in his.

[FULZGOLD]

I go to a lot of cars and coffee events, and there are hundreds of cars there each time. Many of which are newer models with slight mods at best. Some folks were fussing about how bad it is, but I thought look,
at least they are into cars right? ...

[6567GTO]

Originally Posted by FULZGOLD

I go to a lot of cars and coffee events, and there are hundreds of cars there each time. Many of which are newer models with slight mods at best. Some folks were fussing about how bad it is, but I thought look,
at least they are into cars right? ...

I think so. I just dropped out of a club that started thinking about restricting their cruise nights to certain years. The club doesn't even want newer than 63 to join. I'm like, are you nuts? What about grooming the next generation? Needless to say they were against just about everything. The last thing our hobby needs are dreamers and premadonna's ...

[72GTOMN]

I've been in the veterinary field for 25 years. I will say that there are a lot of similarities between "horse people" and "car people". Lots of people still love horses even though they are no longer used for primary transportation or work (except maybe the Amish).

[63 Pontiac]

I like my cars to look similar to factory but 100% correct does nothing for me. I drive mine and upgrades such as braking and handling are the norm.

As has already been said, fuel will eventually become an issue for the older cars. And whatever legislation for emissions, safety, etc, will combine to kill off our hobby.

[carbking]

Opinion (but that is what you asked for)

Option 1 - spend umpteen thousand dollars on a numbers-matching restoration...........that you are afraid to drive!
Option 2 - spend umpteen thousand dollars on a resto-mod ..........................................that you cannot sell!

We have customers going both ways.

And I personally have done both.

From a purely fun stand-point, it depends entirely on your taste. I enjoyed doing both.

From an investment standpoint, you stand to lose a LOT less by going numbers-matching. Nobody but you is going to want the same modifications you wanted. Not saying the numbers-matching is a good investment, but a whole bunch better than the resto-mod.

Jon.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by carbking

Opinion (but that is what you asked for)

Option 1 - spend umpteen thousand dollars on a numbers-matching restoration...........that you are afraid to drive!
Option 2 - spend umpteen thousand dollars on a resto-mod ..........................................that you cannot sell!

We have customers going both ways.

And I personally have done both.

From a purely fun stand-point, it depends entirely on your taste. I enjoyed doing both.

From an investment standpoint, you stand to lose a LOT less by going numbers-matching. Nobody but you is going to want the same modifications you wanted. Not saying the numbers-matching is a good investment, but a whole bunch better than the resto-mod.

Jon.

X 2. The only slight exception might be if your restomod is built by a "famous" builder. But that costs much more up front and who knows if he will be recognized as "famous" 20 years from now. One of the main reasons I sold my 68 400-4 speed Firebird convertible was it's low mileage, numbers matching pedigree. I couldn't have any fun in it, couldn't make it a good driver without hurting the value. So selling it was the best option at the time. Now I have a non-numbers matching car that was a 4-speed conversion and who cares what I do to it. I was able to get into it at a low enough price it would be hard to lose value unless wrecked.

[nashcar]

I've been noticing more and more interest in the resto mods. I think the younger generation is more in touch with computers and injection instead of points and carbs. They are used to spending money instead of time working on a project. Of my current three cars, the one I drive the most is the Nova ss. It's because I could do improvements that I wanted and liked but not original to the car. The other two are great but are correct and complete and any changes would probably hurt the value.

[2002Z4CSS]

I see both sides of the fence. I believe if you have original parts ,then use them. If you don't have a numbers matching car, then do what you will. I like the originals,and restore mods equally. If you started with a original complete car and updated it to modern specs. Than that might be a hard one to do? In my case, my project started as a no engine,transmission. Junked car that was given up on. I will have a new old twist type of car when completed. If my car had the original parts than , I probably would have gone original.

[66sprint6]

One thing’s for sure: it will always be mostly a guy thing and that will hold it back. Women may look at them with interest for 2 seconds, but then quickly turn away. I used to own a ‘69 Camaro SS/RS convertible, mint shape, all original with factory paint and everything. My wife used to refer to it as “that car” and didn’t enjoy it at all. She said it felt like one of those old wooden roller coasters. And really, she was right. It didn’t handle, stop or do anything like a modern car. Since I’ve had my 911 Targa4S, I can’t keep her out of it. Fortunately I’ve got my son into the hobby and he loves our ‘66 Tempest, but he’s kind of blue collar, if you know what I mean. Most of his friends drive ricers.

[U47]

Originally Posted by dhcarguy

Have you been to a street rod nationals lately?? More Ford Model T's, A's and B's then what you will find at an AACA show.

Look how old those guys are.

[poncho-mike]

I had a super solid Lucy Blue 70 Formula. I bought it in 1982 with 60K miles, kept it stored inside, all numbers match and original down to the povery caps on steel wheels and factory AM radio.

I advertised it here, lots of lookers but no takers. Took it to Autofair and sold in within a couple of hours. The guy yanked the all numbers match drivetrain and stuck in a LS motor. Not my preference, but he paid his money so it's his choice.

[Squidward]

I get the LS motor thing - they are great engines. But too many gets boring.

I like the resto-mod concept, but not overly done to where there is too much chrome or paint looks like a fresh coating of liquid crystal.

My favorites are cars that are survivor-ish, looking like they did back in 1980-something, when these were just used cars to a lot of high school kids like me. Faded paint and carpet are ok. They tell a story of use and enjoyment. Foghat cassette under the passenger seat and a feathered roach clip hanging from the mirror are almost required.

I don't have the time or money to play in the hobby at the pure restoration level, so I reject it entirely.

I like the mechanical and electrical to be completely sound and functional. Aftermarket efi is totally fine with me. Primer? No problem. It can look like a big turd on the outside, but as long as it puts a perma-smile on your face when you drive, that's OK with me!

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by 2002Z4CSS

I see both sides of the fence. I believe if you have original parts ,then use them. If you don't have a numbers matching car, then do what you will. I like the originals,and restore mods equally. If you started with a original complete car and updated it to modern specs. Than that might be a hard one to do? In my case, my project started as a no engine,transmission. Junked car that was given up on. I will have a new old twist type of car when completed. If my car had the original parts than , I probably would have gone original.

Your car is an example of what I like in the hobby. A work in progress, but not an obsession. It's not a priceless rarity, either, that must be guarded like a treasure. It's meant to be enjoyed with kids and Shop Dog. I think it's more about the journey than the destination.

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

One thing’s for sure: it will always be mostly a guy thing and that will hold it back. Women may look at them with interest for 2 seconds, but then quickly turn away. I used to own a ‘69 Camaro SS/RS convertible, mint shape, all original with factory paint and everything. My wife used to refer to it as “that car” and didn’t enjoy it at all. She said it felt like one of those old wooden roller coasters. And really, she was right. It didn’t handle, stop or do anything like a modern car. Since I’ve had my 911 Targa4S, I can’t keep her out of it. Fortunately I’ve got my son into the hobby and he loves our ‘66 Tempest, but he’s kind of blue collar, if you know what I mean. Most of his friends drive ricers.

Oh, I think we can carry it on being a mostly guy thing. Every year, dozens of shows take place where women strut down a runway in totally useless and non-functional clothing. Every season, a whole consortium of people try to suggest new styles and colors of clothing and home interior decoration for no reason what so ever. Every holiday, a new drove of short lived decorations flood the stores for celebration. And while this happens, millions of men have about one second of interest, yet it goes on without them and has for decades.

[unruhjonny]

I might be considered one of those 'younger generation' guys;
I see two things;
1) there is an equal number of people who appreciate older cars, just as there are those who see driving as pointless or only drive cars for the need/utility side of things.
2) Anything less than a points show level car will likely continue to be modified, at least lightly - which will offset any cars getting wrecked so that the ratio of custom versus correct cars should be about even...

I have no doubt that within the next twenty years the market will adjust just like the tri-five market did;
But just like the tri-five market, and the mode-T type cars, there is continued interest in them from both a stock and modified state - but you are seeing people too young to have remembered them as new currently enjoying them.

It was suggested in an earlier post that the younger crown won't tolerate cars that have hiccups;
I don't know that I agree with that assertion;
The younger generations are just like the older generations - there are types who like puzzles, and are mechanically inclined;
Even though the younger generations are continually less incline to work on their own vehicles, there is still a portion of the population who will - and who seek careers in the field;
I would rather suggest that the part of the younger generations who have propensity to not work on their cars are generally more accepting to having someone else do the work for them.

[js1977]

My son and I always have the dream car talk. He knows my dream car would be a a 69 charger with the Demon Challenger drivetrain (with a manual trans), suspension, and brakes. But when it comes to the classics I own, they each have their own category that stay either true to originality or semi close (all #'s matching). Our 61 caddy is a true surviver and is maintained as such. Our 69 GTO is restored but has same year/era correct modifications (RA hood scoop/ 15" wheels, color change). Our 75 Vette has probably the most modern mods being super simple mods like updated AC system, modern wheels 17/18, modern suspension, updated carb, intake manifold. I would love to be able to jump in all three and not worry about anything, but then they wouldn't be as fun to own. Part of the fun is working on them and learning. Plus it's just a cool feeling when you can tell someone it's still running on it's original drivetrain 40-50+ years later.

[richopp]

Almost all of them have valid points. (The poster unhappy with people who search for specific parts so the car can be "right:" needs to lighten-up, Francis. It's called a HOBBY for a reason.) Some people like to do that and it can be both frustrating and enjoyable. I just found two IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND tiny clips for $20.00 and it was a real treat even though I have the "original" since I ordered (remember those days?) and purchased my '72 new.

The car business is so different from what it was in the "old days" and the tech is so helpful in many ways. The nanny state stuff worries me A LOT, so I daily drive a 2007 car with a mechanical connection between the throttle plate and the gas pedal. Imagine that!

Look. the muscle cars are what they are and were...by today's standards very crude and mostly no match for a new Demon, but then again they were of that time and are clearly light-years more attractive than most any modern car IMO. Designing for gas mileage and aerodynamics and safety is much different from designing for a specific reason--to win races on Sunday so you can sell on Monday.

Muscle cars, especially the 400-point ones, will continue to draw museum and private collection crowds the same way dinosaur bones do. The difference is that you can DRIVE THEM if you want.

I see some of these high-dollar 400-point restorations becoming drivers by people who have the funds--almost everyone in the top 5%, which is about 17 million people best as I can see. They have managed to accumulate all the money and toys, so that is what will happen. Personally, I would purchase one myself to drive (it is a"new car" if done properly) and enjoy. No, the tranny is not a 97-speed or CVT (UGH!) but you can shift and drive it 1:1 and pay the VP gas price of 12/gal and still get from A to B in rather more style (IMO) than pretty much anything on the road today.

As for the hobby, even my club is losing people and interest daily, and most of us are pretty fanatical. I am old now and retired, so I don't go to events as often, but I very much appreciate the talent and skills required to do the job to get a car ready for a race or show and then SHOW UP and do it. As long as there are people around to do that, the muscle car hobby will be around in some form if somewhat diminished. As for going the way of the Model A and T, who knows? I foresee a day when Congress will outlaw gasoline, so who really knows what will happen? Enjoy today and your car(s) and keep the fires burning with everyone you can influence. We ain't gone yet.

[carcrazy]

I suspect the desire to own a muscle car will slowly fade away.....as we will. There always be some from the younger generations to carry the torch but their numbers will be few.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by carcrazy

I suspect the desire to own a muscle car will slowly fade away.....as we will. There always be some from the younger generations to carry the torch but their numbers will be few.

On one hand, I hope this isn't the case...

But on the other hand, I kinda am hoping for something like this... Imagine all the different pinnacle model year Firebird Formulas I could buy!!!