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grivera · 09-21-2018, 10:16 PM

The dowels were in place and aligned with the transmission at time of original install. I was there and bolted the trans to the engine myself.

NeighborsComplaint · 09-21-2018, 10:44 PM

10/4

Va68goat · 09-26-2018, 08:41 PM

NeighborsComplaint,

I may try this weekend to pull the converter back and start the car and see if the knocking noise is still there. I spoke to Paul today and we were talking about the placement of the starter as well.

chiphead,
I hope it's not the windage tray. Apparently Paul spaces the windage tray with 2 washers. When we pulled the motor, we noticed only one washer (See picture). We used a spacer that provided a little more clearance (See picture). Here is what the pan looked like when we pulled the motor (see pictures)

Sirrotica · 09-24-2018, 10:32 AM

It's the stack up of tolerances that would need this, the same as starter to block shims. However whenever parts are machined, or exchanged, the factory window of tolerances will no longer apply. I previously mentioned the shim is to make adjustments in lateral placement of the flexplate in relation to the crankshaft. The OP shows the shim in his pictures, so we can assume it was installed as the parts were assembled.

I have inadvertently left the shim out on the crank flange to flexplate, without negative results. Doubtful it's going to impact the noise that the thread is about.

64speed · 09-25-2018, 08:36 PM

Has this ever been resolved?

Bentwheelbob · 09-25-2018, 08:58 PM

Yank the engine and send it back. The season is over and you’ve gone above and beyond to find the problem.

Having the PY Forum solve this issue at this point is like throwing darts in a dark room with a blindfold on.. Everyone wants to be helpful, but it’s time to get serious.

dataway · 09-26-2018, 03:30 PM

Yep ... I still think it's a crank weight tapping gently on something.

Wanna see some slow-mo.

TedRamAirII · 09-26-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dataway

Yep ... I still think it's a crank weight tapping gently on something.

Wanna see some slow-mo.

Is it possible for the Crank Counterweight to rub on the oil pump shaft? If so, I would think you could feel it through the distributor housing. When running, just get your stethoscope on it, or crank the engine by hand with your hand on the rotor?

grivera · 09-26-2018, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Is it possible for the Crank Counterweight to rub on the oil pump shaft? If so, I would think you could feel it through the distributor housing. When running, just get your stethoscope on it, or crank the engine by hand with your hand on the rotor?

How would this be possible on a factory block with factory replacement parts? Could H-beam rods affect clearance?

TedRamAirII · 09-26-2018, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grivera

How would this be possible on a factory block with factory replacement parts? Could H-beam rods affect clearance?

Rods would not affect clearance to the oil pump drive. Who knows? ; )

dataway · 09-26-2018, 07:00 PM

On my bone stock engine it's close but not that close maybe 1/4" or 3/16".

TedRamAirII · 09-26-2018, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dataway

On my bone stock engine it's close but not that close maybe 1/4" or 3/16".

I thought it may be closer than that? who knows. The answer to the issue will be interesting! I hope its soon, and not any major issue. I wonder if the windage tray is hitting somewhere? maybe it was a little "too close" somewhere?

chiphead · 09-27-2018, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

I thought it may be closer than that? who knows. The answer to the issue will be interesting! I hope its soon, and not any major issue. I wonder if the windage tray is hitting somewhere? maybe it was a little "too close" somewhere?

I would think that if the crank were to hit the pump drive, the results would be catastrophic.

On my Scat crank build, it's really close between the rear counterweight and the hardened oil pump drive. It appears to be less than .100", but I'm not sure how to check it. Is there a safe minimum?

TedRamAirII · 09-27-2018, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiphead

I would think that if the crank were to hit the pump drive, the results would be catastrophic.

On my Scat crank build, it's really close between the rear counterweight and the hardened oil pump drive. It appears to be less than .100", but I'm not sure how to check it. Is there a safe minimum?

"Hitting" was the wrong word, "Rubbing" may be more what I had in mind. Keep in mind this has engine has almost been disassembled since Paul put it together. I never did hear why the poly locks were adjusted at such different heights.

I have all the confidence in Paul. I'm not dissing him at all. No doubt he knows what he is doing. It just one of those things. I'm sure he wishes he was there to check this personally.

Va68goat · 09-28-2018, 10:00 PM

NeighborsComplaint,
Well....I find what you wrote pretty interesting!

Va68goat · 09-28-2018, 05:19 AM

NeighborsComplaint,
When you had the same noise on your motor, were there witness marks or evidence of the rubbing on the pan?

mgarblik · 09-28-2018, 10:28 AM

Well, it may be best to get the engine back in the hands of the gentleman who can verify and correct the engine to your satisfaction. It's unfortunate you have the long distance situation to deal with.

NeighborsComplaint · 09-28-2018, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Va68goat

NeighborsComplaint,
When you had the same noise on your motor, were there witness marks or evidence of the rubbing on the pan?

Couldn't tell really. The shop that welded the pickup to the pump put the pickup tube in a vise so there marks all over it.

When I fired the motor for the first time, the previous owner was there and crawled under the car immediately as he noticed the sound and said something is wrong, you have some kind of interference in the bottom end. At first he thought maybe the rear main seal had spun but it wasn't leaking. It sounded like yours. Not a knock, just a scuffing sound. We pulled the motor, flipped it over and removed the pan. Checked the bearings first, inspected the rear main seal, checked the lower dipstick tube and windage tray.

I pulled the oil pump and pickup out and spun it with a drill to listen for noises and found nothing. As we were putting it back together, the prior owner noticed the shop had cocked the pickup )large tube RA IV style) slightly when they tacked it to the pump and the pickup wasn't level left to right.

The pan had a fairly tight baffle and you had to angle the pan to get it over the pickup. With the pan resting on the gasket you could move the pan slightly to align the bolt holes and feel the baffle bump the pickup tube. We ground some clearance on the baffle instead of waiting to have the pump pickup rewelded, reassembled and fired it up and the noise was gone.

I could be wrong and I know your pan has no baffled sump, but when I listened to your vid, I thought damn I've heard that sound before.

tom s · 09-26-2018, 07:42 PM

On may 23rd of this year post 105 I said get it out and back to Paul,4 month gone and a summer lost.I cant say how much im bummed for you.Paul will find it IF its in the engine im sure.Tom

64speed · 09-26-2018, 09:34 PM

It’s probably something really stupid and minor that’s gonna make you laugh when you find it but this is precisely why I didn’t do a long distance build. I have a machine shop here that does a LOT of Pontiacs and if I have a problem I only have to drive 45 minutes to bitch. Carter1 who is asking about shipping in one of the other posts is using my engine builder. He’s 300 miles from here but I told him to drive it down and pick it up. Well worth the face to a name experience

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