[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
It does have a mechanical fuel pump. We did remove the fuel pump and ran it with just the fuel in the bowls. The knocking noise was still present.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

mgarblik,
It does have a mechanical fuel pump. We did remove the fuel pump and ran it with just the fuel in the bowls. The knocking noise was still present.

I am sorry that wasn't an issue because an easy fix. I wish you the best. I will keep thinking about it. Knowing that Paul is an expert and it was fine on the dyno, I am concentrating on what changed and what is different in the car. Keep the faith.

[64speed]

I agree I have Paul doing some work for me in my build to with the cam and the oil pump but those are easy to ship. Royal pain in the ass to ship the whole engine though. I have no doubt Paul is doing you right, I would expect nothing less of his good name that’s why I trusted him to spec my cam and blueprint my oiling system.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Assume oil pump pickup to pan clearance was checked?

[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
Well, I honestly believe that the knocking noise was missed at the dyno. It's understandable considering how loud it must be. When the car was first started, the knocking noise was different. After conducting about 25 hours of diagnosis and replacement of parts, we pulled the motor and checked the windage tray. There were witness marks on the tray. We added some spacing and put it all back together and started the car. The knocking noise was not as loud and appears to have a different tone. I think the noise from the windage tray masked the current noise that we here now.

[Va68goat]

dataway,

Yeah, I agree. It sounds like hard medal hitting softer metal. I don't think I will be the one to set up a GoFundMe, though I do appreciate the kindness. Paul, Jeff and I have an unofficial agreement regarding shipping the motor back to Arizona then back to Virginia when it's repaired.

I had a custom wooden crate that was build by a business that is right around the block from Pauls shop. Does anyone have a stand or crate that can be used for transport?

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

dataway,

Yeah, I agree. It sounds like hard medal hitting softer metal. I don't think I will be the one to set up a GoFundMe, though I do appreciate the kindness. Paul, Jeff and I have an unofficial agreement regarding shipping the motor back to Arizona then back to Virginia when it's repaired.

I had a custom wooden crate that was build by a business that is right around the block from Pauls shop. Does anyone have a stand or crate that can be used for transport?

Vidguy (James) had one for loan in the past - not sure if still available:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...98#post5661698

[HWYSTR455]

Those spacers installed added like a 1/4", I seriously doubt anything is still hitting the tray. The witness marks were very minor to begin with.

.

[NeighborsComplaint]

You painted the inside of the oil pan???? All that paint is going to come off and clog your oil pump pickup screen.

Witness marks from oil pump pickup rubbing on the bottom of the oil pan?

[gtofreek]

Some of you guys act like this is the first engine I have ever built. Just to be clear, I have built over 500 engines and well over 200 Pontiac engines. I check oil pump pickup to oil pan clearance as well as everything else. Somehow I couldn't hear the windage tray touching so I missed that. My mistake, but that doesn't mean I didn't check anything else. Keep in mind also that this is the first issue like this I have ever had with an engine build in 25 years of doing this. The only other issues I have had have all been from parts malfunctions.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Paul, I am only offering an observation. My experience is limited to a half dozen motors I have built and pales in comparison to your experience and caliber of work.

I do have an inquiring mind however and the oil pan is obviously painted inside and shows a spot where the paint appears rubbed away and looks suspect.

There are things that can cause a pickup to contact the pan after the fact like a dented sump that occurs during install or a tight original clearance with a 5/16” cork gasket that becomes an interference when a thinner pan gasket is substituted (like A BOP one piece) after the fact. The pulses within the crankcase could cause the interference to come and go in time with the nearest counterweight.

As the pan had been removed to add the windage tray spacers and the noise remains, there is a possibility the pump pickup is touching the pan, and the absence of paint in the area of the pickup strongly suggest it is worth a look if the new flexplate doesn’t resolve the issue.

[tom s]

The owner said he did not paint the oil pan?Tom

[dataway]

"I hear you knocking but you can't come in! "

At some point I usually give up and drive the heck out of it ... if it's an important noise, it will make the cause known before too long

[craigs69]

Originally Posted by dataway

"I hear you knocking but you can't come in! "

At some point I usually give up and drive the heck out of it ... if it's an important noise, it will make the cause known before too long

I have had a knocking noise coming from lower rear in my engine for the last 4+ years. I am not running a windage tray and I installed a new SFI flex plate with the build. I swapped cam/lifters and rockers, checked the fuel pump eccentric, verified crank end play and separated the converter from the flexplate and the knock remained. I have removed the pan several times and swapped out the oil pump. Nothing seems out of spec. It seems like it quiets down some when the engine is up to temp and sometimes goes away entirely. I have never found anything alarming in the oil or filter and my oil pressure is fine. It gets pushed to 5,000+ rpm every time I take it out and 4+ years later and 5,000 miles, no issues.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Here’s what I think based on when I can see in here. It sounds Tinny.
Put your hand on the oil pan and feel for any type of Obvious strong knock.
Make sure the torque converter bolts are actually pulling Tight And not bottoming out .
Then run it with the converter backed off.
Next I’d have to go have a look at the flexplate mounting bolts to the Crankshaft.
I don’t know if it’s just a photo that you have of the flexplate but the torque converter mounting bolts area looks like the bolts were chattering, and it looks like the tour converter bolts have the threads beat on them where they ride in the flexplate.
It sure sounds like a flexplate problem to me
And there you go my two cents

[gtofreek]

There is no shiny spot in the pan. That is light reflecting off the oil. Pickup has 1/4" clearance. It is welded in place. Tig welded. It cannot drop down because the lid on the pump would prevent it if it wasn't welded. There is no paint in the pan either. It's been bead blasted.

[Va68goat]

AG,
We did add the correct spacing to the windage tray. I haven't inspected or replaced the flexplate yet. I would love to be able to do the flexplate by myself but with my lack of knowledge, I really would be worried to do something that would made things worse for me. When the flexplate work is done, if it still knocks, I think at that point, I will have no choice to speak to Paul about sending the motor back.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

AG,
We did add the correct spacing to the windage tray. I haven't inspected or replaced the flexplate yet. I would love to be able to do the flexplate by myself but with my lack of knowledge, I really would be worried to do something that would made things worse for me. When the flexplate work is done, if it still knocks, I think at that point, I will have no choice to speak to Paul about sending the motor back.

Before you waste time on the flexplate. At least pull the plugs and get a ratchet on the front of the crank and turn the engine by hand, and see if you ever feel any unusual tight area, binding, rubbing, noise of any kind.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Before you waste time on the flexplate. At least pull the plugs and get a ratchet on the front of the crank and turn the engine by hand, and see if you ever feel any unusual tight area, binding, rubbing, noise of any kind.

Great idea - maybe someone with a stethoscope at the same time monitoring for noise.

[dataway]

Just watched that video again about ten times ... jeez, I'm going to go against the grain and say it's coming from the front of the engine. I assume you've removed all the belts and ran the engine and the sound remains? Like others, I think it's half engine rpm since it's almost slow enough that you can count them. Any chance the timing chain could be contacting something? In my mind a see a picture of a bad chain link on a double roller slapping the nose of the oil pan ... but I don't think it's close enough to do that.

Other than the noise ... engine sounds great, very healthy and strong.