[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

I know you're more experienced than I am but you can't say if the noise is the same or not. You're not here. NOTHING has been determined yet. I know you're backing Paul but my allegience is to my motor and the money spent on it. At this point, I don't care who's feelings get hurt. I did notice that you didn't address my question if the distributor bushing could have been damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. That in itself is telling. I see that you're cheerleading here and you only address questions that could support Paul. I don't care what your perception is of me by having conversations with Paul but only giving opinions based off your allegiance to Paul is obvious.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,

I know you're more experienced than I am but you can't say if the noise is the same or not. You're not here. NOTHING has been determined yet. I know you're backing Paul but my allegience is to my motor and the money spent on it. At this point, I don't care who's feelings get hurt. I did notice that you didn't address my question if the distributor bushing could have been damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. That in itself is telling. I see that you're cheerleading here and you only address questions that could support Paul. I don't care what your perception is of me by having conversations with Paul but only giving opinions that puts blame on everything other than a select few facts does not help.

And you throwing fuel on the flames with no basis for facts is helping?? LOL Especially since you haven't even set the timing yet. Common...

Okay look, You've posted the noises with video.

A fact we know already....the clicking noise early on that was intermittent was the reluctor wheel in the distributor contacting the pickup. There is no arguing that. Fixed and done.

Could the distributor bushing have been damaged when it "spun a rod bearing??" (It didn't BLOW UP) That's nothing but speculation and no way of knowing that for sure. That part of the engine relies mainly on splash lubrication anyway and doesn't get all that much oil back there unless you drill that oil galley plug. So constantly going on about whether it could have done this or that is just jibber jabber. There is nothing telling about it. So there, that's pretty much the gist of it and answers your question.

I would rather stick to what we know for sure, that's what is going to help you and everyone else here. Plain and simple.

What we know for sure is that the timing needs to be set. Paul told you that. This also confirms my suspicion that your noise you have now that you posted for everyone to listen to, is likely a pre-ignition scenario. I've heard this noise before. Usually an engine that has too much timing at idle will do this. It was also more telling that the noise went away when the engine was revved. The fact that Paul says the timing needs to be reset because he pulled the distributor before shipment is also telling and goes along with where I believe the noise is originating from. So lets just concentrate on that first. There is no sense in throwing mud or assuming this or that. It's pointless.

[Va68goat]

So since I shared the information about the motor blowing up on the dyno, I've had a lot of guys sending me messages and calling me with questions and thoughts. I guess some guys don't feel comfortable putting stuff out there because there is so much controversy and finger pointing going on. Here is one point that was brought up several times.

Multiple guys told me that they believe that the distributor bushing was most likely damaged when the oil pickup tube fell into the pan and the motor blew up. Their reasoning for the damaged distributor bushing is, the motor lost oil pressure, starved the motor of oil and could have easily damaged the bushing, the camshaft and components directly connected to it. I don't know if any of this is possible? Anybody have any thoughts?

Here is an email from someone didn't want to post himself but said it was ok for me to cut and paste. Any thoughts?

This is important information for anyone who is interested in diagnosing the mysterious knocking noise. I feel that this information must be considered before attempting to correctly diagnose.

What is Known:

1. The tapping noise is not consistent. It is erratic. (Reference the slow motion video previously posted)
2. Every component and outside surface of the motor and transmission was checked with a mechanic stethoscope.
3. Only one specific point was confirmed to have contact with a pathway to the source
4. The noise was only picked up at the base of the distributor. (Nowhere else)

What does this information tell you ?

This means that ether the distributor is malfunctioning or a component that has a direct pathway to the distributor is malfunctioning. When the motor was sent back this last time Paul said that he found play in the bushings located on the bottom of the distributor shaft. Paul said he sent the distributor back to the manufacture and had it repaired. So if this is correct then it would not be the distributor.

There are only two other contact pathways left for the noise to travel to the base of the distributor. 1) The camshaft and components directly connected to it. 2) The oil pump or components directly connected to it.

I hope this information helps and good luck,

[Formulajones]

First lets look at the #1 you posted.

That erratic and non consistent noise was found by Paul the first time. That was the distributor bushing, and the reluctor wheel was cocked so far sideways it was contacting the pickup intermittently creating that clicking sound off and on. We determined this a long while back in this thread.

The noise you have now is not the same intermittent noise. What you hear now is pre ignition on your new video, the car is idling too slow and has too much initial timing in it. We've determined that already, and Paul even told you the distributor was pulled after the dyno to check the bushing, and dropped back in before shipment, with a note stating the timing will have to be checked again. That's why I said "bingo" on that post, because it relates directly to the issue I'm trying to describe here.

I don't see anywhere yet where that has been done and verified so until that is finished with numbers and new video posted, it's pointless to guess or assume. But I'm 100% confident there isn't a problem inside that engine. Not with the cam, not with the distributor, not with the oil pump or anything related to it. Paul dotted the I's and crossed his T's going completely through it.

[Va68goat]

torqhead,

Thanks for the info..That was helpful. I'll be buying a timing light after it gets timed tomorrow. Gnawing is an understatement...hahaha. It's frustrating because I have no experience with with these old cars and having to depend on friends becomes a burden. I'll be buying a lot of beer at the conclusion of this!

[Sun Tuned]

Did the worn bushing distributor get replaced by a whole different one? Or just a different housing?

I didn't see the answer to this if it was mentioned earlier.

I know the initial timing has been set. But if the original shaft that had the worn bushing was reused, isthere any possibility one of the or more than one of the reluctor teeth have been dinged and firing at different time than an equal 45 degrees for each of the 8?

Does this make sense?

I've seen it before.

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Did the worn bushing distributor get replaced by a whole different one? Or just a different housing?

I didn't see the answer to this if it was mentioned earlier.

I know the initial timing has been set. But if the original shaft that had the worn bushing was reused, isthere any possibility one of the or more than one of the reluctor teeth have been dinged and firing at different time than an equal 45 degrees for each of the 8?

Does this make sense?

I've seen it before.

Suntuned, it's been determined that the motor has not been timed correctly and was posted on the motor prior to shipping. Appears they just need to get a timing light on it, set it properly and should be good to go.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Did the worn bushing distributor get replaced by a whole different one? Or just a different housing?

I didn't see the answer to this if it was mentioned earlier.

I know the initial timing has been set. But if the original shaft that had the worn bushing was reused, isthere any possibility one of the or more than one of the reluctor teeth have been dinged and firing at different time than an equal 45 degrees for each of the 8?

Does this make sense?

I've seen it before.

Shaft looked beautiful except for some light polishing from the bushing. No scratches or galling in it at all. Reluctor looked good except for being shined up where it was rubbing.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

torqhead,
Sun Tuned,
From what Paul told me, just the bushing was replaced and the old distributor was used. Paul had me buy another polymer gear to replace the one that was on it previously. This may be better answered by Paul but I don't know how much he is going to respond because he isn't addressing anything that I post...so who knows! I'm assuming he would respond to this specific question because it's an easy answer.

He addressed that particular issue here:

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Shaft looked beautiful except for some light polishing from the bushing. No scratches or galling in it at all. Reluctor looked good except for being shined up where it was rubbing.

[Va68goat]

ponjohn,

I'm hoping it's a timing issue. I have a buddy coming over tomorrow that is helping me!

[torqhead]

I've built and ran a lot of these motors over the years and I'm confident the bushing on the dist did not get damaged by the oil pickup issue. Other parts in the motor would have ceased up and killed it before it probably would do any significant damage to that bushing.

As someone noted, it would quickly trash the bearings , crank/rods. As I described previously, when a motor gets put on a dyno, oil pressure and all that other stuff is monitored closely. I have no doubt as soon as they saw oil pressure go, tapping started and it was shut down immediately. Unfortunately when this happens builders know to pull the plug, nothing more to do than tear it back down as it needs a minimum of bottom end re-work with bearings, turning and cleaning up the crank, etc. I would also mention that what happened with the pickup falling off is rare and unfortunately humans are involved in assembling these engines. This is totally dumb luck that it happened to you and I'm sure the builders are just upset, if not more upset about this happening on their watch.

Based on what you said, they took care of everything when this happened and I assume the only impact on that first engine is it significantly delayed getting your motor back to you. As mentioned previously, you made a wise decision to pay to have it dyno'd. it's a test for many things including the aw sh!t things.... And it was found before it shipped back to you and you installed it cause that would have really sucked!

Based on the last video, there were a few signs that definitely point to pre-ignition. I hope you went down to your local auto parts store and picked up a dial back timing light. They're not that expensive and it's an important tool for you to have if you are going to have a muscle car.

I understand all of this is probably gnawing at your brain to understand all the impacts. But I'm sure the motor is brand new inside (hopefully no damage caused by it being run with too much advance in the distributor) and it will live a long life if you tune it. I've rambled enough and hope this helps.

[Va68goat]

gtofreek,

I really would hate to respond to this because it would be much better handled by a phone conversation. I notice your comments only respond to questions or comments that divert the attention from the hard questions that I have. To say that I'm rubbing things in your face is almost childish. I have questions that are difficult for you to answer because your ego and your pride are bigger than your ability to understand why someone is questioning you. It's not my problem if you're offended that someone dare challenges or questions "GTOFREEK".

I'll be more than happy to play this out right here if you want me to. Give me the word and I can start posting every text that we have sent each other. I have nothing but time but I don't want to do that. I have handled everything better than most people. I have EVERY text between you and I since day one. Plenty of them tell you not to worry about the mistake with the pickup tube and some I'm actually joking around telling you how I'm now learning something about motors. I've sent you gifts from Virginia to you when it was time to send you parts. I even offered you a plane ticket to Virginia to look at the motor and said you could stay at my house. You declined that.

I've made plenty of mistakes. I learned from them because I confronted them and I dealt with the consequences. You're throwing a tantrum because someone dared question you. Let me know if you want this played out here. I'll be more than happy to start. All I have to do is cut and paste what I have already written and post the screenshots. If this is the way you and Jeff handle builds that go wrong, I would tell anyone that is considering going through you guys to be aware. Read the prior posts Paul..I always said good things about you and said how I would go through you guys again. Thats until you came up with that bull**** handwritten invoice for $2,750 where you're trying to get back some of the money when the motor failed on the dyno. Tell everyone how you had to pay $2,000 to the dyno shop...a shop that I'm sure you go through for all your builds. Lets play it out here Paul since you cant return a text or a phone call!

[Va68goat]

AG,

I may have used the wrong terminology. When the motor was on the dyno the first time, the oil pickup tube was not secured and it fell into the oil pan. The crankshaft had to be replaced, 2 rods, bearings etc. We DON'T know if it was caught early or not. It ran long enough to have to replace the crankshaft, 2 rods and bearings.

[Va68goat]

455GRIN,

I appreciate the comments. This whole thing has been a bad experience but it's not over yet! I want to concentrate on getting this motor right...that's my first priority!

[64speed]

I don’t know how it works there but in SC you call the Attorney Generals office and make a complaint. SC is a VERY consumer friendly state. The AG usually sides with the customer and the Sheriffs Office goes out and claims the property. I have probably served 300 or more claim and delivery orders but only one lien paper.

[Va68goat]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=831250

[Va68goat]

ponchjoe,

You're right and I'm just as guilty as others. I'm trying to stay focused but sometimes I lose my cool. Thats not helping. Hey, check out the other thread I put up about the result of the 1st dyno. I started that thread because I wanted to focus on the distrbutor and the dyno session. Some are wondering if the bad distributor bushing was the result of a problem more than the cause of the knock. I don't know enough to make an educated guess but I know the noise I heard yesterday is the exact noise that I've been listening to for 2 years. The knock is still here. We got a signature at the distributor again when we used a broomstick to listen. This was the 1st time that I personally put my ear to a broomstick and listened. I was impressed that actually works.

[promptcritical]

ah...

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

Stop cheerleading. Umm...I've spoken to a majority of the people that comment on here. They've seen the texts that I've received during this build. I think a lot of guys would be surprised what I've dealt with as well! You're not as respected here as much as you think or want to be.

[Formulajones]

I'm not here for respect, couldn't care less what people think about me.

I simply enjoy the good people here, and the dozen or so people I've met from the forum have become really great friends. Those that have met me in person know what kind of person I am and that I don't hide behind the keyboard like most pretending to know something, and the ones that get upset because they don't want to hear what I have to say apparently have a chip on their shoulder. Either get over it or block me. I don't care. But it's all good, you're entitled to think what ever you want, take it or leave it. It's really no skin off my back.