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i82much · 09-23-2019, 11:41 AM

I haven't paid a ton of attention but it sure looks like both the customer and the engine builder conducted themselves like reasonable adults and as a consequence everything worked out in the end. A lesson for all of us.

72projectbird · 09-23-2019, 01:02 PM

What a mess.

Im glad it's resolved for the OPs sake. Hopefully it doesn't sour him on Pontiacs.

ponjohn · 09-23-2019, 03:08 PM

The outcome of this thread is fantastic. There have been other discrepancy threads and they went sideways on post #3, let alone 71 pages.

Well done.

chiphead · 09-23-2019, 03:27 PM

Congrats to all involved. Hopefully the car can get back to ruining tires. I want to see some smoky gopro footage of this thing getting crossed up.

So where did the damaged piston go? It should be on Joe's desk as a serious conversation piece.

gtofreek · 09-24-2019, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiphead

Congrats to all involved. Hopefully the car can get back to ruining tires. I want to see some smoky gopro footage of this thing getting crossed up.

So where did the damaged piston go? It should be on Joe's desk as a serious conversation piece.

It should have came back with me so I could measure it very closely to see how I could have missed it. That way, at least I learn something else from this whole experience. Having questions without answers is frustrating.

chiphead · 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtofreek

It should have came back with me so I could measure it very closely to see how I could have missed it. That way, at least I learn something else from this whole experience. Having questions without answers is frustrating.

I agree. .040" skirt OD reduction, collapse, whatever, between the gauge point and the bottom of the skirt is a lot. Is it all on one side, or both sides? Is any skirt deformation showing? Is it a MFG issue? Is the top ring or accumulator groove pinched? Any other signs of physical damage?

Lots of good questions could be answered by this burnt offering to the god of speed.

Va68goat · 11:49 PM

promptcritical,
I paid $12,175 for a $7,800 motor. Not to include 180 hours and two years of diagnosing the motor. I believe anyone would be upset. The problem with the motor was addressed and fixed. Did I protect myself...absolutely. There is nothing wrong with that. You're right, this got ugly. I never mentioned the failed dyno or said one negative thing until I was forced to pay $2,575 to get my motor back and it came back with the same knock as it had when it was first started.

Va68goat · 09-24-2019, 10:45 AM

Gator67,
Thank you. Paul inspected and measured the #5 cylinder walls. He said it was fine. I had only driven the car for less than 250 miles since I received it. It was never driven hard during that time.

Va68goat · 09-23-2019, 03:58 PM

Grivera,
If I wasn't confused before, I sure am now.

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promptcritical · 09-23-2019, 10:38 PM

I thought it was determined that it didn’t spin a bearing???

MidnightAuto · 09-23-2019, 10:45 PM

Finally victory. Enjoy the ride.

tooski · 09-23-2019, 11:28 PM

I've been tuning in just about every day. Even made a post. Glad for everyone involved. I didn't know piston slap would sound that bad.

HWYSTR455 · 09-24-2019, 08:03 AM

Just to say, the usual piston slap is different than what happened here, this was a collapsed skirt. And that would be why it didn't sound like piston slap, this was a knock. Slap is generally cause by loose piston to wall clearances, this was a gross clearance issue.

.

455GRIN · 09-24-2019, 08:43 AM

It seems there is some conflicting comments from the engine builder about the bearing failure. The damaged piston was from the same cylinder as the bearing issue on dyno before Joe received it. Coincidence? only if your from Iowa.

Gator67 · 09-24-2019, 10:10 AM

The engine sure sounds great now, congrats.

Any theories as to what would have happened if the engine was run with the damaged piston?

mgarblik · 09-24-2019, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gator67

The engine sure sounds great now, congrats.

Any theories as to what would have happened if the engine was run with the damaged piston?

Theory only! It could have run like that for a very long time pissing off the owner every time he drove the car. Not the way to enjoy a great car like a GTO. I drove a Jeep 4.0L with the skirt actually broken off below the oil ring land. Found the entire half of the skirt in the oil pan when I finally took it apart after 2 years and 30K miles of hearing it knock. So the answer is we will really never know. Forged pistons are so soft and pliable, it may have just hung on there and operated indefinitely.

Formulajones · 09-24-2019, 11:16 AM

Some of you guys need to read post 1400 again. Paul goes into detail what he found and it will answer all of these questions.

He states right in there, the bearing wasn't spun. It was over heated and discolored the journal and the rod next to it but it did not spin inside the rod.

The piston also never smacked the head and he explains why that never happened and couldn't have happened given the circumstances of this failure. He goes on to say that something entered the engine through the intake system and that's where the damage started.

After all that Paul has done to make this right maybe it's about time some of you actually listen to what Paul has to say and drop the conspiracy theory crap.

Bottom line is it's now fixed, Joe is happy and the engine runs as strong as ever.

Va68goat · 09-24-2019, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Some of you guys need to read post 1400 again. Paul goes into detail what he found and it will answer all of these questions.

He states right in there, the bearing wasn't spun. It was over heated and discolored the journal and the rod next to it but it did not spin inside the rod.

The piston also never smacked the head and he explains why that never happened and couldn't have happened given the circumstances of this failure. He goes on to say that something entered the engine through the intake system and that's where the damage started.

After all that Paul has done to make this right maybe it's about time some of you actually listen to what Paul has to say and drop the conspiracy theory crap.

Bottom line is it's now fixed, Joe is happy and the engine runs as strong as ever.

Formulajones, nobody is throwing Paul under the bus here. I really do appreciate that Paul came out here and fixed the problem. Paul posted that the bearing spun and it was eaten up but for some reason his last post said it didn't. Maybe he forgot because it's been a while. Paul and I are still communicating regarding business. I wont share that here. He's a stand up guy. Read the post #784.

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Va68goat · 09-24-2019, 10:32 PM

shoebox1.1,
All the work was done in my garage so no resurfacing was done on the head while he was here.

hurryinhoosier62 · 09-24-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Theory only! It could have run like that for a very long time pissing off the owner every time he drove the car. Not the way to enjoy a great car like a GTO. I drove a Jeep 4.0L with the skirt actually broken off below the oil ring land. Found the entire half of the skirt in the oil pan when I finally took it apart after 2 years and 30K miles of hearing it knock. So the answer is we will really never know. Forged pistons are so soft and pliable, it may have just hung on there and operated indefinitely.

X 2, Mike. It could have been a manufacturer's defect from the part's inception. Mike, I don't know about you, but WHEN was the last time you measured across the skirt tips instead of the barrel of the piston?

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