[Sun Tuned]

Unisets are really not my bag of tea anyway. Pain in the ass to dress them even if you wanted to. Can be done, but not easily. Certainly not as easily as the conventional separate set of points.

The real deal in all this point stuff is in the varying capacities of the condensers....
Nobody even mentioned that part yet. That's where the good stuff is.

[dataway]

I notice that NAPA doesn't list the CS-89 as fitting a 68 GTO for some reason. While the Echlin catalog says the CS-89 fits Pontiac from the late 50's - 74.

Napa does list various Echlin points for a 68 as
standard ECH CS86,
heavy duty ECH CS786
performance ECH CS7860
"race only" ECH CS7860C

CS-89 still the preferred points for a 68 ?

Silly question ... but, did the 68's use a distributor mounted condenser or coil mounted? I see two versions, one with a longer wire and separate clip, and one that appears to have a shorter wire and an attached clip.

If my old memory serves me right mine had the condenser mounted to the breaker plate.

[Sun Tuned]

They work fine. As I said the CS-89 was a supposed direct replacement for D112P Delco points which were pretty stiff as they were a performance set for some pretty serious rpm.

As such no D112P sets were factory installed on Pontiacs as RPO.

They fit fine.

There was a condenser installed in distributor on all Pontiacs as standard procedure as that was needed for the points. The second condenser you spoke of mounted on the coil bracket may have been installed on all, some, or none of certain GM applications through the years and was simply a radio frequency interference capacitor. Used as a "electrical noise" filter, such as to eliminate alternator whine in the radio of some vehicles.

[george kujanski]

I'll add to that the the radio interference capacitor was connected to the coil POSITIVE, not like the capacitor(condenser) used with points, which is connected to the coil NEGATIVE. Do not connect any additional capacitor to the coil negative, it will detrimentally affect your ignition.

George

[dataway]

Thanks guys.

[00fxd]

Working from memory here ... Often points don't need to be changed ..... If they are burnt they can be filed...... if they are burnt unevenly [more one side than the other] the condenser is bad .... Condensers have a finite life span, they deteriorate inside from age, even if not being used. Heavy springs are meant for and work well for Hi RPM use but the rubbing block wears more quickly resulting in more often adjustment of dwell.
Please correct me if my memory is off on ant point ...... happens lately.

[Pecosbill]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Well here's the deal with all that.

First, back a long time ago.... Delco any kind of points were semi adjusted to where if somebody hadn't been goofing with them already, you could pull them from the foil wrapped box and put them in a fire the car.

That's no joke. Now don't think they were all adjusted to 29 degrees of dwell on every set but they were within spec enough you could start a car and somewhat drive it if needed. I still am using these sets as I still have a fairly healthy supply still.

Absolutely correct. I well remember that foil box. My cars always started, without fail, whenever I put a set of Delco points in it before any adjustment was made. Recently I put a set of Accel points in my car and it wouldn't start for anything. I got frustrated and pulled out a very worn set of points and installed them. Car fired right up. Told me that the problem must be in the points set. I pulled the distributor so I could get close enough to see the gap (old eyes) and I could see the enormous gap that the factory "setting" had. I had to turn that allen screw several full turns to get the gap more to where it should be.

I have been buying AC/Delco points on Amazon.com and they seem to work well.

One last trick that the old guys might remember: Need to install an emergency set of points but don't have a feeler gauge or a dwell meter handy? Install the points and fire the car up. Turn the points screw counterclockwise until the engine just starts to miss. Then turn the points screw 1/2 of a full turn clockwise, close the hood and go. The points will be within 2 degrees of 28-32. Try it the next time you install some points just for grins.
Bill

[unruhjonny]

This is a GREAT thread;
it seems that often I appear to be the only one who recommends a 'plain old' factory points setup when ever people are looking for opinions - so to see so many people attesting to running them problem free, is a nice change

[smasse64]

...Suntuned...Nice to see you here...Good question for you and others here...on my 64 lemans 326 which runs an HEI that Suntuned put together for me 15 yrs ago..(awesome job by the way!).....it seems about every 3-4 yrs i'll be driving..last year on highway on Cape Cod, 75 mph, and the HEI module craps its pants and leaves me by the side of the road!..My first module lasted many years, but these newer ones must all be made in CHEENA! ..my question: If I converted back to points, would I also have to use the smaller diameter plug wires or could i just keep HEI set which almost new?...also, I took out the pink resistor wire, would i have to reinstall one or is there a way to just mount a resistor on the wire in the engine bay?....
Thanks...

[Sun Tuned]

Pecosbill, you are right. That little misfire deal is actually printed in the factory shop manuals.

Spark plug box top worked well too as well as the cover on a book of matches.

Smasse...
It's probably cause you let me work on it.

Nah you can get a conversion cap like what msd sells that fits points housing but has HEI terminals.

Very easy.

[Sun Tuned]

Sorry I didn't see last part.
You could just run a resistor like the factory did off the coil bracket,if you wanted to.

That's easy to do also.

[unruhjonny]

I was going to respond to smass64, but upon re-reading his post, I am guessing I am missing something... so I won't touch it - but I will post the rest of what I intended;

This jogged my memory, and lead me back to a thread that I had a small part in from last year;
This all started because I decided to once again peruse ePay for what Delco points sets were going for - then I noticed the D106P vs D106PS, and then there were other similar numbered points (D108 iirc) that looked the same...

About that other thread - I'll quote my post:

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

... But hearing of a superior type/brand/pt# of points, has me looking into this...

I am trying to cross reference GM part numbers;
According to my MPC all 1970 V8 Firebirds:
#1931988 = 350-2bbl
#1966294 = all others

From some further sleuthing, it appears as though;
#1931988 = D106P
#1966294 = D112P

From more searching, I believe I found this tidbit;
#1966294 = vented points

So that tells me that the D106P is the non-vented points.

(some of the following is for future reference)

#1931988/12338659 = D106P (non-vented?; later part appears to be vented; spring clip terminal; OEM for L30)
#1966294 = D112P (long since discontinued; OEM for L78 / L74 / L67)
-----------------------
#1996289 = D106PS (screw clip terminal vs D106P spring clip)
#1876600 = D1007 (points & condenser; "uniset")
#1852134 = D1003 (D112P + condensor set)

With that as the context, I am curious why the general consensus seems to be looking for a replacement for a D106P (unvented with clip connector) vs the slightly better D106PS (vented with screw connector) Delco points.
Or
The (even) better D112P which appears to be best substituted with either a NAPA CS89 or CS7860 points set.
(The Corvette article link from my old post was removed from this quote)

[Sun Tuned]

Man history of those will take several pages.

Folks like to banter about on what is THE best set to get.

Answer is really dependent upon what you're actually doing with the vehicle as to what specific set you'd really be looking for.

Really comes down to the spring tension in ounces it requires to unseat or break the contacts.
Obviously high rpm such a a 427/435 hp vette will utilize the 112p's, grandmas bonnevile wagon, not those.

They been arguing over the clip set Vs screw set since the first two sets of each made it onto the highway.
I've never had an issue with either coming disconnected.

My dad has an old Delco bulletin I'll have to dig out that outlined general suggested installation guidelines for useage in vehicles while he was at Pontiac dealer back in the 60's.

They would use the large contact unventilated set for in town light to light use, they'd use the ventilated small contact set for mainly freeway use, and the performance sets were self explanatory. They were to query customer on main intended useage of the vehicle and recommend point sets from there. Within the D106 P,PS, or HP families. Like say if you were a salesman with a huge tristate territory and were on freeway 85% of the time or more, then they might use the ventilated small contact set or vice versa depending on the customers intended useage.

The 112's are good but they are really a might stiff for anything other than really getting with it in a street car.

Twin D112P sets in a epoxied up base iron housing chevy distributor in a heated 327 were good here at home for 8500 rpm with no issue. Incedentally that was same engine that used the very first Lunati .600/.600 lift solid roller cam Pappa Joe ground and gave to a good friend of my dads to try out.

Point distributors may not be as glamorous as the electronic stuff, and may in fact be antiquated tech, but they can sure be worked rather easily to have some pretty nasty fangs when needed.

[TCSGTO]

I don’t know when it was written so some info may be outdated, but here is a very in depth article on NAPA point sets.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ts-article.pdf

[Sun Tuned]

That's a nice article.thanks for sharing it.

[unruhjonny]

Sun Tuned, I can guess by your posts that your a very informed guy, so please understand that I appreciate your insight (if you ever found that bulletin I'd love to read it);
That article is linked in my original post that I quoted (I said I removed it);
I recieved my Firebird in 1995 after graduating from High School - so needless to say, all this technology preceeds me by several years - which is why I have to often do my own reading.

Between my '70 and the '73 that I owned for a spell, I have run points for probably 99.8% of the time I drove the two - and for the first (aprox) six years, my '70 was my main driver or only car...

[unruhjonny]

This might very well be my fovorite post for 2018:

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

...
Point distributors may not be as glamorous as the electronic stuff, and may in fact be antiquated tech, but they can sure be worked rather easily to have some pretty nasty fangs when needed.

I love it - too bad so few people will even humor this, let alone believe it.

[unruhjonny]

also, i will be going through these looking for any such bulletin;
I accidentally bought these last Friday at the Portland swap meet - I say accidentally because they were marked as coming out friday morning at $20/ea, but apparently at the end of friday $10 was sufficient to take them all...

I think I stumbled on a great deal - from my cursory glances (after getting back to my cousin's house) it appears as though these are a special set that not many people recieved...
and here the uniqueness of the binders was all that caught my eye(!)

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

After Several Failures on my 78 Trans Am HEI Ignition, I will never run HEI parts again.

The ignitions I plan to use are either basic points/condenser or a "Potted" MSD-6 Ignition Box with RPM capability and a simple magnetic trigger wheel in the distributor. I have tried to stock up on the older good Delco points and Condenser sets when I can find them.

Tom V.

Great "points". I have run points triggered MSD for years (15+ years) and the points don't really wear. No current draw across them.
Toyota used points triggered CD ignition for years.
BTM, my understanding is the 'goo" Nappa points and the Accel are one and the same.
I see no reason to go to a MSD Pro billet in my car as long as I keep the RPMs under 8K. I have run my distributor on a Sum machine up to 8K with no bouncing.
And folks, if you like points get the old iron distributors while you can. They are MUCH better at holding a bushing. And oil them better too. I have yet to find one worn out and seen many aluminum ones worn out.

[Mister Pontiac]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

This is a GREAT thread;
it seems that often I appear to be the only one who recommends a 'plain old' factory points setup when ever people are looking for opinions - so to see so many people attesting to running them problem free, is a nice change

X2.

I run both points and HEI’s in different engines in my fleet. I like the fun of learning to keep both alive and well, and I don’t want everything to be the same.

I will continue to run both, each with their respective merits and negatives, but honestly, I’ve had more problems with the HEI units than I have with points. Like others have said, I’ve never been stranded by my points cars, but I can’t say the same for the HEI’s.